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I know you know there's explanation for

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everything that occurred in the

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Rendlesham forest incident it doesn't

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involve aliens at all it was completely

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silent it comes right over our head it's

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so a classic flying-saucer really

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standing in the clearing he turned over

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to my father and held his hand and he

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looked in his eyes and said we're not

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alone welcome to podcast UFO for our

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live show we're live every Wednesday at

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8 p.m. Eastern Standard Time on the dark

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matter radio network please remember to

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visit the website podcast UFO calm for

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past episodes blogs and forums during

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the show feel free to participate live

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in our chat room and don't forget to

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Like us on our very active Facebook page

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hello and welcome to the show and the

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announcer just lied there I'm not live

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Wednesday evening at 8 to 10 p.m.

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Eastern Standard Time I'm actually

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broadcasting from Russia you regular

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listeners know this I gave some warning

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so we're at today's it actually Tuesday

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too so we're a day early and we're not a

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dollar short but we are in the afternoon

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Eastern Standard Time 1 to 3 p.m. which

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is actually 8 to 10 p.m. my time here al

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not at Moscow time if you want to check

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it out them at actually at the Black Sea

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it's beautiful area and having a good

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time I'm here for 42 days in total so

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I'll be running my shows on Wednesday

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afternoon from 1 to 3 p.m. that's when

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you can catch me live on YouTube and I

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have done some email from the people in

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Europe and they're real excited about it

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because they can actually watch it live

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thank you if you are listening live and

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the chat rooms available as well and

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I'll be checking messages on that

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throughout the show so thanks so much

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and we are ready to get started

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alejandro couldn't make it today he'll

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be back next week he's going to be

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joining us live it's just because I had

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to do it the day early that he could not

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make it now we have the one and only

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Kevin Randle real excited to have him he

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and I are going to be talking about a

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document now noted on the web page

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midnight in the desert that we have to

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announce this was something that was

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released to Heather Wade on midnight in

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the desert and we're going to be talking

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about that it's been making a lot of

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buzz and Kevin had a top-secret security

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clearance

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he knows how these documents are

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supposed to be written and has a lot of

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great information on it and Kevin

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welcome to the show how you doing I'm

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doing fine

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and you're in Russia I'm in Russia and I

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just what did you say I did I

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compromised your security clearance I

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was about to say that you compromised me

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the NSA now is seeing that I'm getting

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phone calls or skype messages from from

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the former Soviet Union now Russia so

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I'm probably dead in the water here

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thanks a lot fella

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sorry about that but I'm so glad to have

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you on and I have said this many times

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before on my show and actually when I do

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Alejandro Rojas is news on open minds

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dot TV as well as you are the go-to guy

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I think in a lot of cases when it comes

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to getting the true story on what's

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going on and I was really happy to see

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that you explored this document that has

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been going I want to say semi viral in

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the UFO community so so let's talk about

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it when's the first time you heard about

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it and all that I heard about it at 4:10

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p.m. central Daylight Time on Wednesday

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June 14th I was after pinning it down I

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was going to have a Steve Bassett on my

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show a different perspective

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which is hosted on the exo and broadcast

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network and i couldn't make contact with

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him and so we had to fall to our or drop

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back to our fallback position which is

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put up one of the other shows and he

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called me at 4:10 and said this is too

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late and I said yeah the ship has sailed

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al and he said well we've been chasing

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this document and he told me about it

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and where it was and he wanted to get on

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the radio right then and there and talk

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about it and I'm thinking I haven't even

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seen it yet I don't want to have

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anything to do with it cuz it's mj-12

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and I'm pretty well convinced that mj-12

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is a hoax but all of it is a hoax

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there's really nothing to it of any

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value but I wanted to see the document

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because it could be that I was wrong on

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that

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so yeah I mean you have to see it so he

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told me where it was I downloaded it

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immediately from from Heather site the

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midnight in the desert and looked at it

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the first thing I saw it says ultra top

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secret and I'm thinking you know that

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just doesn't make good sense to me Ultra

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top secret because Ultra was a program

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for the British during the Second World

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War where they were talking about

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attempting to intercept into code top

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secret Nazi communications for the for

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the war effort

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but it also says at the bottom of the

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thing read and destroy light I'm

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thinking well if it says read and

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destroy which is a really dumb

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instruction but how did this one escape

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from from that when you destroy

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classified materials in it especially

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secret and top secret materials you're

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required to fill out documentation to to

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verify it has been been properly

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destroyed and so if this was read and

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destroy he would have had he would I

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probably should say he or she but it's

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probably a guy would have had to

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document its destruction so he lied on a

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government document about its

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destruction and then spirited it out of

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the facility

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top secret material requires storage in

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a vault by the way not just a safe or a

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reinforced filing cabinet requires a

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vault so taking a document out like that

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is something even even worse than

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stealing a secret

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a confidential document so this was the

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first thing that struck me but but I

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went on and I looked at it I looked at

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the way it was constructed and the thing

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that the other thing is on classified

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material there's always a stamp at the

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top and the bottom that gives the

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classification top secret or secret or

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confidential it's at the top and the

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bottom of all pages this thing only had

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the classification at the top page so

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that that's a problem it said the

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authors and there was a big thing across

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it said classified the authors weren't

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listed I'm thinking I can't think of a

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reason that you'd have a document

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created you can't list who the authors

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were because of course if they've listed

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the names we'd have been able to maybe

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find out who they were what they were

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doing or would be unable to find them in

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a position where they would be creating

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a document like this and then I got to

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the Roswell stuff and it just really

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fell apart from there I think the date

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says something like 0 7 July 47 which

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are 0 7 July , 1947 which is the way the

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things are dated on the mj-12 documents

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but that's not standard military a

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dating format the information inside the

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Roswell part of this document was just

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horribly inaccurate it said for example

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that Brazel had called the chirps office

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at some at 5 o'clock in the morning well

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a Mac Brazel didn't have a telephone and

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B we know from testimony of a number of

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people that he took the stuff to Roswell

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and he got there it early enough that he

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could interrupt

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Jesse Marcel's lunch Jesse Marcel was

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eating lunch over at the officer's club

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according to what Jesse Marcel said when

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he got the call from the sheriff so that

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the timing didn't work out there's all

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kinds of things like that in the Roswell

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part of it they just didn't make any

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sense

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we move on to the Aztec part of it and

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it doesn't really fit with the

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information we know about that I believe

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Aztec is a hoax I don't believe there

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was anything there I know that I in

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disagreement with a lot of different

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people on that but I think the the Aztec

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crash is a hoax as well so if this is

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included in the mj-12 document in this

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NJ 12 document well that tells me that

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it's a hoax but then we get to the part

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where there's an interview with an

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extraterrestrial biological entity and

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so I read through that it said it was an

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interview conducted by several

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interviewers last few pages but the

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thing that leapt out of me was they said

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well why do you come here and part of

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the answer was well we like your trees

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right yeah and I'm thinking yeah do you

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like the dependent music and the

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strawberry ice cream as well you know

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the lead the the responses by this alien

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being were awful equal English and I

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can't think that they would be talking

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in the vernacular of the English even

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even no matter how smart they were so

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there were a lot of little things like

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that and that was my first gut reaction

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to it but then I went through and looked

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through it carefully and it became even

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worse there the mistakes were just

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Legion the text didn't make any sense

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the way it was written it wasn't written

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in the way a document like this would be

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written at the high levels it was it's

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riddled with errors and inconsistencies

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so my conclusion was after having an

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opportunity and read it carefully and I

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communicated this to Steve Bassett as

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well on Wednesday I think when we when

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we first talked about it then we talked

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about it again on Saturday for my show

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but I told him that I just I thought the

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thing was a hoax and I and I I approach

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these things because I know people are

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going to say well you don't believe

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mj-12 therefore anything says mj-12

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you're going to reject out of hand and

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I'm always of the mind of the the

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prospector it which is you always have

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to look you don't expect to find gold in

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certain places but you have to look

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because in case it's there you want to

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be able to find it and so every time

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something like this surfaces I look to

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see if it is something that is

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legitimate and this thing suffers from

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all the problems with the other mj-12

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documents which begins with a lack of

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provenance we don't know who the guy was

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who stole it

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we don't know how it got into Heather

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let Heather Wade's hands although we do

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know that according to her she knows the

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guys

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who sent it to her and she finds them

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reliable which is completely possible I

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suppose but the document is just

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outrageously fraudulent I was to say it

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well let me ask you a couple questions

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about it first of all have you ever

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heard of a situation where a document

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does say read and destroy no is that a

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possibility that the government would

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have ever been involved in a document

271
00:11:27,559 --> 00:11:20,970
like that

272
00:11:30,980 --> 00:11:27,569
um I think there are I always thought

273
00:11:32,960 --> 00:11:30,990
the eyes-only classification you know a

274
00:11:36,939 --> 00:11:32,970
secretary of defense eyes only kind of

275
00:11:41,569 --> 00:11:39,230
there's there possibly could be

276
00:11:44,389 --> 00:11:41,579
materials at the highest level of

277
00:11:45,410 --> 00:11:44,399
classification that that tell people to

278
00:11:48,019 --> 00:11:45,420
read it and then destroy it immediately

279
00:11:51,110 --> 00:11:48,029
so it it cannot get out into the public

280
00:11:52,790 --> 00:11:51,120
yeah but in that case we wouldn't have

281
00:11:54,740 --> 00:11:52,800
any of these sort of things to look at

282
00:11:56,600 --> 00:11:54,750
that's right I've never I've never come

283
00:11:58,610 --> 00:11:56,610
across anything like that which is not

284
00:12:01,610 --> 00:11:58,620
to say it doesn't exist it's just in my

285
00:12:03,619 --> 00:12:01,620
career I never saw anything like that

286
00:12:04,970 --> 00:12:03,629
and and and to be perfectly candid for

287
00:12:07,309 --> 00:12:04,980
the most part in my career I only

288
00:12:09,759 --> 00:12:07,319
handled secret material I rarely came

289
00:12:13,759 --> 00:12:09,769
across top secret material that in

290
00:12:15,740 --> 00:12:13,769
Indian and in my positions I was one of

291
00:12:17,420 --> 00:12:15,750
the few people in the organization and

292
00:12:19,730 --> 00:12:17,430
by that I mean when I was in the Air

293
00:12:21,559 --> 00:12:19,740
Force the the either the wing or the

294
00:12:24,939 --> 00:12:21,569
group level activity and when I was in

295
00:12:29,780 --> 00:12:24,949
the and the army at the battalion level

296
00:12:33,499 --> 00:12:29,790
I never came across I came across

297
00:12:34,699 --> 00:12:33,509
top-secret materials the nature of my

298
00:12:36,439 --> 00:12:34,709
jobs didn't require me to have

299
00:12:39,699 --> 00:12:36,449
top-secret materials I did in fact

300
00:12:41,540 --> 00:12:39,709
attend a Defense Intelligence School

301
00:12:42,740 --> 00:12:41,550
where you had to have a top-secret

302
00:12:44,299 --> 00:12:42,750
clearance to go because they were

303
00:12:46,549 --> 00:12:44,309
dealing with top-secret materials and we

304
00:12:50,299 --> 00:12:46,559
were getting top secret briefings and I

305
00:12:53,269 --> 00:12:50,309
know of a circumstance of a military

306
00:12:55,610 --> 00:12:53,279
museum and I won't say where where you

307
00:12:56,929 --> 00:12:55,620
there was a secret room a top secret

308
00:12:58,419 --> 00:12:56,939
room where you had to have a top secret

309
00:13:01,669 --> 00:12:58,429
clearance to get in to see the stuff

310
00:13:03,410 --> 00:13:01,679
because of what it was and what it would

311
00:13:04,150 --> 00:13:03,420
suggest and I did get a chance to get

312
00:13:06,680 --> 00:13:04,160
into that room

313
00:13:09,260 --> 00:13:06,690
but we were any interesting side part

314
00:13:11,150 --> 00:13:09,270
was the the curator took me out into a

315
00:13:13,460 --> 00:13:11,160
display earlier where they had a lot of

316
00:13:15,680 --> 00:13:13,470
different military equipment displayed

317
00:13:16,760 --> 00:13:15,690
and one of them had been shot up and he

318
00:13:18,320 --> 00:13:16,770
wanted to know the caliber of the

319
00:13:20,530 --> 00:13:18,330
bullets that had gone through there and

320
00:13:22,700 --> 00:13:20,540
I'm thinking why why don't you know this

321
00:13:24,530 --> 00:13:22,710
but it looked to me like it had been hit

322
00:13:26,240 --> 00:13:24,540
by 50 caliber rounds so I said that's

323
00:13:29,360 --> 00:13:26,250
what I said - I think it was like a 50

324
00:13:30,800 --> 00:13:29,370
Cal to me I don't know why they had

325
00:13:32,420 --> 00:13:30,810
didn't have somebody else that could

326
00:13:35,090 --> 00:13:32,430
have told him that so or maybe they were

327
00:13:37,490 --> 00:13:35,100
just getting a survey of opinion find

328
00:13:39,560 --> 00:13:37,500
something like that but I point is you

329
00:13:40,730 --> 00:13:39,570
know when we look at this stuff and you

330
00:13:45,260 --> 00:13:40,740
start dealing with with stuff at the

331
00:13:47,500 --> 00:13:45,270
very highest levels the people who are

332
00:13:49,640 --> 00:13:47,510
allowed to see it it's very very limited

333
00:13:51,410 --> 00:13:49,650
you have first of all you have to have a

334
00:13:53,210 --> 00:13:51,420
top secret clearance second of all you

335
00:13:54,500 --> 00:13:53,220
have to have a need-to-know and third of

336
00:13:56,420 --> 00:13:54,510
all there's often a code word that goes

337
00:13:59,060 --> 00:13:56,430
with it you have to be codeword cleared

338
00:14:01,400 --> 00:13:59,070
to see it as well and and and to use the

339
00:14:03,470 --> 00:14:01,410
example from this it would have said top

340
00:14:06,020 --> 00:14:03,480
secret ultra as opposed to ultra top

341
00:14:07,310 --> 00:14:06,030
secret but to see the document then you

342
00:14:08,780 --> 00:14:07,320
would have had a top secret ultra

343
00:14:09,980 --> 00:14:08,790
clearance and that would have been noted

344
00:14:11,150 --> 00:14:09,990
and if you didn't have the top secret

345
00:14:12,680 --> 00:14:11,160
ultra clearance you wouldn't be allowed

346
00:14:14,750 --> 00:14:12,690
to see the document even though you have

347
00:14:16,310 --> 00:14:14,760
a top secret clearance one of the other

348
00:14:20,450 --> 00:14:16,320
things that's been mentioned about this

349
00:14:23,240 --> 00:14:20,460
is the paragraphs aren't noted in a lot

350
00:14:25,700 --> 00:14:23,250
of the especially the top secret

351
00:14:27,500 --> 00:14:25,710
materials each paragraph will begin with

352
00:14:29,870 --> 00:14:27,510
a little parenthetical statement it will

353
00:14:32,060 --> 00:14:29,880
say like TS for top secret or s for

354
00:14:34,100 --> 00:14:32,070
secrecy for confidential to allow the

355
00:14:36,170 --> 00:14:34,110
reader to know the level of

356
00:14:39,140 --> 00:14:36,180
classification that specific material

357
00:14:41,380 --> 00:14:39,150
especially if the material is made up of

358
00:14:44,750 --> 00:14:41,390
all different levels of classification

359
00:14:46,460 --> 00:14:44,760
the document we classified at the

360
00:14:47,630 --> 00:14:46,470
highest level of any of the information

361
00:14:49,700 --> 00:14:47,640
in it but all the information doesn't

362
00:14:52,520 --> 00:14:49,710
have to be top secret there's also

363
00:14:54,920 --> 00:14:52,530
something else called no forum so it

364
00:14:58,420 --> 00:14:54,930
means no foreign dissemination and so

365
00:15:01,970 --> 00:14:58,430
you'd see TS - no fo r and no foreign

366
00:15:04,130 --> 00:15:01,980
and this doesn't have anything like that

367
00:15:05,600 --> 00:15:04,140
on it at all none of those sorts of

368
00:15:07,780 --> 00:15:05,610
things are there and I would expect to

369
00:15:11,510 --> 00:15:07,790
see some of that in a document like this

370
00:15:13,820 --> 00:15:11,520
sure now a couple things about this

371
00:15:16,550 --> 00:15:13,830
particular document document first of

372
00:15:17,519 --> 00:15:16,560
all is it's supposed to have the

373
00:15:19,949 --> 00:15:17,529
appearance of

374
00:15:22,170 --> 00:15:19,959
Mamiya graft or something what is it

375
00:15:25,139 --> 00:15:22,180
it's very hard to read and by the way

376
00:15:27,059 --> 00:15:25,149
any listener can read this it's on of

377
00:15:30,389 --> 00:15:27,069
course midnight in the deserts but it's

378
00:15:34,379 --> 00:15:30,399
also on our website linked under the

379
00:15:37,129 --> 00:15:34,389
show notes do you think I growl it I'll

380
00:15:40,410 --> 00:15:37,139
interrupt a saying you can go to my blog

381
00:15:41,460 --> 00:15:40,420
WWWF and radwa blog spot.com and click

382
00:15:42,749 --> 00:15:41,470
on the link and it'll take you to

383
00:15:43,860 --> 00:15:42,759
midnight in the desert so you can read

384
00:15:46,290 --> 00:15:43,870
the documents that way too

385
00:15:48,299 --> 00:15:46,300
yeah that was just a plug for my blog

386
00:15:49,590 --> 00:15:48,309
don't worry well if I'm going to do it

387
00:15:51,869 --> 00:15:49,600
if I'm going to do these things I'm

388
00:15:54,840 --> 00:15:51,879
going to plug my blog dog dog on it yes

389
00:15:57,360 --> 00:15:54,850
and uh as I said earlier I truly believe

390
00:16:00,420 --> 00:15:57,370
if you want to find out if the story

391
00:16:02,160 --> 00:16:00,430
about UFOs is real or not you want to

392
00:16:04,889 --> 00:16:02,170
get a really good perspective on it

393
00:16:06,319 --> 00:16:04,899
please do go to Kevin's website because

394
00:16:08,569 --> 00:16:06,329
that's where I always end up landing

395
00:16:10,499 --> 00:16:08,579
when I'm looking into something and

396
00:16:12,179 --> 00:16:10,509
there's some really really great

397
00:16:15,079 --> 00:16:12,189
information I'll do that plug for you

398
00:16:17,850 --> 00:16:15,089
Kevin because thank you I really really

399
00:16:21,299 --> 00:16:17,860
think your website is very important in

400
00:16:23,189 --> 00:16:21,309
this field so first of all what's your

401
00:16:25,290 --> 00:16:23,199
thoughts about the mimeograph look I

402
00:16:26,910 --> 00:16:25,300
don't think it's mimeograph and it

403
00:16:29,610 --> 00:16:26,920
shouldn't be mimeograph because it's a

404
00:16:31,470 --> 00:16:29,620
top-secret document so the printing of

405
00:16:33,059 --> 00:16:31,480
it would be be restricted it doesn't

406
00:16:35,670 --> 00:16:33,069
look to me like it's me McGrath

407
00:16:38,400 --> 00:16:35,680
it clearly has been Xerox like 9,000

408
00:16:42,269 --> 00:16:38,410
times in June I was done on purpose to

409
00:16:44,910 --> 00:16:42,279
make it look I don't know more authentic

410
00:16:46,769 --> 00:16:44,920
and some type of way I think it was done

411
00:16:47,490 --> 00:16:46,779
so that they could cut and paste stuff

412
00:16:49,829 --> 00:16:47,500
together

413
00:16:51,569 --> 00:16:49,839
I see cuz you and I think that's the

414
00:16:53,790 --> 00:16:51,579
purpose of it I cannot see a document

415
00:16:55,799 --> 00:16:53,800
and I'm looking at the second page of it

416
00:16:58,139 --> 00:16:55,809
and it says authors and it's stamped

417
00:17:00,169 --> 00:16:58,149
classified I cannot see them doing

418
00:17:01,949 --> 00:17:00,179
anything like that if the authors were

419
00:17:04,559 --> 00:17:01,959
classified the names would have been

420
00:17:06,299 --> 00:17:04,569
left out they wouldn't put them in there

421
00:17:08,159 --> 00:17:06,309
there's no reason for the names not to

422
00:17:09,600 --> 00:17:08,169
be there I mean we've got a top-secret

423
00:17:12,240 --> 00:17:09,610
documents giving us all the information

424
00:17:14,399 --> 00:17:12,250
and we don't get to know who the authors

425
00:17:16,319 --> 00:17:14,409
of the document are that's preposterous

426
00:17:18,779 --> 00:17:16,329
absolutely preposterous that's that's

427
00:17:20,370 --> 00:17:18,789
the first clue right there and then as I

428
00:17:22,199 --> 00:17:20,380
said you look at the classifications

429
00:17:25,409 --> 00:17:22,209
there's a there's a sheet here in it's

430
00:17:27,299 --> 00:17:25,419
basically blank that's classified it

431
00:17:29,520 --> 00:17:27,309
doesn't really work that way it should

432
00:17:31,289 --> 00:17:29,530
say this page left intentionally blank

433
00:17:32,430 --> 00:17:31,299
which I always laugh about

434
00:17:34,049 --> 00:17:32,440
because if you've written on at this

435
00:17:37,529 --> 00:17:34,059
page left attentionally blank it's not

436
00:17:40,259 --> 00:17:37,539
in fact blank it's got writing on it but

437
00:17:42,419 --> 00:17:40,269
it's included in the document and what's

438
00:17:45,149 --> 00:17:42,429
interesting is the top secret at the top

439
00:17:47,759 --> 00:17:45,159
of this page is reversed it's a mirror

440
00:17:50,279 --> 00:17:47,769
image and I wondered about that because

441
00:17:52,049 --> 00:17:50,289
the rest of it seems to be written

442
00:17:53,850 --> 00:17:52,059
properly so I mean there's a lot of

443
00:17:56,399 --> 00:17:53,860
little dumb things like that

444
00:18:01,259 --> 00:17:56,409
the dating format is wrong for the

445
00:18:03,269 --> 00:18:01,269
military and the other thing is I don't

446
00:18:08,460 --> 00:18:03,279
know why it would be ultra top-secret as

447
00:18:10,139 --> 00:18:08,470
opposed to um top-secret mj-12 or

448
00:18:12,690 --> 00:18:10,149
whatever the lousy classification areas

449
00:18:14,369 --> 00:18:12,700
using this week there's places where it

450
00:18:15,899 --> 00:18:14,379
says classified where it really should I

451
00:18:16,859 --> 00:18:15,909
mean it says classified this is ultra

452
00:18:23,029 --> 00:18:16,869
top-secret well that's the

453
00:18:25,710 --> 00:18:23,039
classification I've seen cover sheets

454
00:18:27,359 --> 00:18:25,720
that you put on the classified material

455
00:18:32,310 --> 00:18:27,369
and the ones I was most familiar with

456
00:18:34,440 --> 00:18:32,320
we're sort of a bright pink and it said

457
00:18:36,690 --> 00:18:34,450
classified cover sheet I've seen others

458
00:18:38,099 --> 00:18:36,700
it's a top-secret cover sheet and see

459
00:18:40,049 --> 00:18:38,109
clout secret to cover sheet and that

460
00:18:42,869 --> 00:18:40,059
sort of thing I've never seen anything

461
00:18:45,330 --> 00:18:42,879
quite like this so III there are just so

462
00:18:48,960 --> 00:18:45,340
many little things wrong when you're

463
00:18:50,399 --> 00:18:48,970
when you're a civilian I guess someone

464
00:18:52,229 --> 00:18:50,409
who has not worked with the military

465
00:18:54,599 --> 00:18:52,239
classification or the classified

466
00:18:56,430 --> 00:18:54,609
materials and you're trying to duplicate

467
00:18:59,549 --> 00:18:56,440
something like that there's all kinds of

468
00:19:01,769 --> 00:18:59,559
little things that you don't know or you

469
00:19:04,320 --> 00:19:01,779
wouldn't notice yeah a great example is

470
00:19:06,320 --> 00:19:04,330
if you watch movies and you see people

471
00:19:10,769 --> 00:19:06,330
in military uniforms you can often

472
00:19:13,379 --> 00:19:10,779
realize they don't know the uniforms

473
00:19:15,119 --> 00:19:13,389
aren't quite right the distinctive

474
00:19:16,710 --> 00:19:15,129
insignia are placed improperly sometimes

475
00:19:18,989 --> 00:19:16,720
the ribbons are reversed sometimes the

476
00:19:20,700 --> 00:19:18,999
ribbons are upside-down yeah meaning the

477
00:19:22,649 --> 00:19:20,710
highest ribbon is at the bottom instead

478
00:19:24,389 --> 00:19:22,659
of at the top and and and that sort of

479
00:19:26,450 --> 00:19:24,399
thing so you you look at that and it

480
00:19:29,070 --> 00:19:26,460
just thinks civilians don't realize

481
00:19:31,470 --> 00:19:29,080
they've seen seen pictures or things and

482
00:19:32,879 --> 00:19:31,480
they put it all together and I think

483
00:19:35,509 --> 00:19:32,889
this is what we have here is kind of a

484
00:19:38,099 --> 00:19:35,519
conglomeration of stuff I think the

485
00:19:41,270 --> 00:19:38,109
source material for the Aztec stuff

486
00:19:44,970 --> 00:19:41,280
especially is

487
00:19:47,220 --> 00:19:44,980
William Steinman's book UFO crash at

488
00:19:49,160 --> 00:19:47,230
Aztec I think that's this I think that's

489
00:19:52,920 --> 00:19:49,170
part of the source material for this

490
00:19:55,740 --> 00:19:52,930
they didn't have they didn't have Scott

491
00:19:59,100 --> 00:19:55,750
Ramsay's book which is incident at Aztec

492
00:20:01,950 --> 00:19:59,110
or the Aztec UFO incident I'm sorry and

493
00:20:03,540 --> 00:20:01,960
they didn't have Scully's book which is

494
00:20:06,780 --> 00:20:03,550
behind the flying saucers which is the

495
00:20:09,240 --> 00:20:06,790
three books about the Aztec crash so

496
00:20:11,430 --> 00:20:09,250
they had they obviously had this einman

497
00:20:13,590 --> 00:20:11,440
book and was working from that I do want

498
00:20:15,990 --> 00:20:13,600
to talk to about the Aztec crash later

499
00:20:18,270 --> 00:20:16,000
but how one of the things I was thinking

500
00:20:20,490 --> 00:20:18,280
about when I opened the the document

501
00:20:24,600 --> 00:20:20,500
started reading through it it said that

502
00:20:26,910 --> 00:20:24,610
people named would be would not be

503
00:20:29,430 --> 00:20:26,920
people's names would not be written down

504
00:20:32,490 --> 00:20:29,440
and then further down in the document

505
00:20:34,710 --> 00:20:32,500
had people's names listed was that

506
00:20:36,000 --> 00:20:34,720
something I just don't understand or

507
00:20:38,370 --> 00:20:36,010
what were they trying to do with that

508
00:20:39,810 --> 00:20:38,380
they were trying to cover themselves

509
00:20:40,830 --> 00:20:39,820
because they didn't know the names of

510
00:20:44,970 --> 00:20:40,840
some of the people who would have been

511
00:20:47,460 --> 00:20:44,980
key players Jesse Marcel's name is out

512
00:20:49,520 --> 00:20:47,470
there for everybody to see so you can

513
00:20:52,140 --> 00:20:49,530
put his name in there but other names

514
00:20:53,670 --> 00:20:52,150
would be a little bit more obscure so to

515
00:20:55,110 --> 00:20:53,680
cover themselves they said well we've

516
00:20:57,420 --> 00:20:55,120
changed some of the names or left them

517
00:20:59,670 --> 00:20:57,430
out which means they just didn't know it

518
00:21:01,380 --> 00:20:59,680
one of the other things and your

519
00:21:03,780 --> 00:21:01,390
question kind of keyed that for me it

520
00:21:05,190 --> 00:21:03,790
said that twining had gone to Roswell

521
00:21:07,290 --> 00:21:05,200
Lieutenant General twining had gone to

522
00:21:09,810 --> 00:21:07,300
Roswell and relieved blanchard of his

523
00:21:11,340 --> 00:21:09,820
command and this is something that

524
00:21:13,080 --> 00:21:11,350
people outside the military wouldn't

525
00:21:15,480 --> 00:21:13,090
understand Blanchard was not relieved of

526
00:21:17,460 --> 00:21:15,490
command at any point if he was we would

527
00:21:20,540 --> 00:21:17,470
have documentation because that's a

528
00:21:23,520 --> 00:21:20,550
really big deal what it should have said

529
00:21:25,560 --> 00:21:23,530
was that twining had gone to Roswell and

530
00:21:27,270 --> 00:21:25,570
assumed command because he was the

531
00:21:29,970 --> 00:21:27,280
senior officer present for this

532
00:21:31,620 --> 00:21:29,980
particular incident ah that that would

533
00:21:33,420 --> 00:21:31,630
have made sense to me but good saying I

534
00:21:35,670 --> 00:21:33,430
believe Blanchard of command that's

535
00:21:38,700 --> 00:21:35,680
that's not right he did not leave relief

536
00:21:41,790 --> 00:21:38,710
blanchett of command and I and I know of

537
00:21:44,880 --> 00:21:41,800
a number of circumstances and going back

538
00:21:46,890 --> 00:21:44,890
to my experience in Vietnam I once was

539
00:21:49,970 --> 00:21:46,900
the company commander simply by virtue

540
00:21:53,299 --> 00:21:49,980
of being the senior officer on the base

541
00:21:56,060 --> 00:21:53,309
know I was a 19 year old Ward office

542
00:21:57,320 --> 00:21:56,070
oh yeah we had had to evacuate a lot of

543
00:21:59,600 --> 00:21:57,330
the aircraft I always like to say I was

544
00:22:01,610 --> 00:21:59,610
a senior surviving officer which is sort

545
00:22:03,739 --> 00:22:01,620
of true and sounds really dramatic but

546
00:22:06,499 --> 00:22:03,749
the fact of the matter is we evacuated

547
00:22:10,279 --> 00:22:06,509
most of the aircraft and because my

548
00:22:13,009 --> 00:22:10,289
aircraft broke we have been flying all

549
00:22:14,389 --> 00:22:13,019
day and they'd sent out a new bunch of

550
00:22:16,460 --> 00:22:14,399
coal pilots I was the aircraft command

551
00:22:17,840 --> 00:22:16,470
set up a bunch of new co pilots and the

552
00:22:19,039 --> 00:22:17,850
copilot said should I check the tail

553
00:22:20,389 --> 00:22:19,049
rotor and I said now we've been flying

554
00:22:21,919 --> 00:22:20,399
all day any climbed up there and checked

555
00:22:24,399 --> 00:22:21,929
it anyway and the linkage fell apart in

556
00:22:26,960 --> 00:22:24,409
his hands so we weren't going anywhere

557
00:22:29,359 --> 00:22:26,970
so we were left behind so I was a senior

558
00:22:31,399 --> 00:22:29,369
officer left on the base at that are in

559
00:22:33,350 --> 00:22:31,409
our company area at the time so they

560
00:22:36,710 --> 00:22:33,360
would come to me with questions for the

561
00:22:40,639 --> 00:22:36,720
12 or 14 hours I was the company

562
00:22:42,470 --> 00:22:40,649
commander but but the point is I did not

563
00:22:44,659 --> 00:22:42,480
relieve anybody of command I merely

564
00:22:46,879 --> 00:22:44,669
assumed command simply because I was the

565
00:22:49,609 --> 00:22:46,889
senior officer present so it's Diana

566
00:22:51,619 --> 00:22:49,619
that wording was totally off yes that

567
00:22:54,649 --> 00:22:51,629
would and I had Blanchard been relieved

568
00:22:57,019 --> 00:22:54,659
that would have ended his career if you

569
00:23:01,129 --> 00:22:57,029
get relieved for cause from a military

570
00:23:02,629 --> 00:23:01,139
unit like that you're done well you

571
00:23:05,299 --> 00:23:02,639
would you would be out of the service

572
00:23:07,340 --> 00:23:05,309
quickly we've just had an example that

573
00:23:09,320 --> 00:23:07,350
we may see something like that and that

574
00:23:12,529 --> 00:23:09,330
was the collision between the container

575
00:23:14,119 --> 00:23:12,539
ship empty and the US destroyer yeah

576
00:23:16,460 --> 00:23:14,129
the captain that's destroyer could be in

577
00:23:18,259 --> 00:23:16,470
deep trouble especially because seven of

578
00:23:21,470 --> 00:23:18,269
his sailors were killed

579
00:23:24,409 --> 00:23:21,480
he's his career might be over at this

580
00:23:26,210 --> 00:23:24,419
point depending on the circumstances and

581
00:23:28,100 --> 00:23:26,220
we even imagine how that whole thing

582
00:23:33,999 --> 00:23:28,110
happened with today's technology and

583
00:23:36,049 --> 00:23:34,009
equipment was he texting well he was

584
00:23:37,639 --> 00:23:36,059
obvious I think he's on the Blake bridge

585
00:23:39,169 --> 00:23:37,649
he and he and a number of other sailors

586
00:23:41,090 --> 00:23:39,179
were injured

587
00:23:42,950 --> 00:23:41,100
and they were medevacked out I don't

588
00:23:44,239 --> 00:23:42,960
know where he was and even if he was

589
00:23:46,100 --> 00:23:44,249
texting there should have been other

590
00:23:47,960 --> 00:23:46,110
people looking at the radar scope and

591
00:23:49,850 --> 00:23:47,970
the the geister and the ship should have

592
00:23:52,399 --> 00:23:49,860
been looking around and there should

593
00:23:53,779 --> 00:23:52,409
have been I shout there to see this

594
00:23:55,369 --> 00:23:53,789
container ship because it's not like

595
00:23:58,100 --> 00:23:55,379
it's a little tiny thing that was gonna

596
00:24:01,369 --> 00:23:58,110
sneak up on you I but I don't understand

597
00:24:03,200 --> 00:24:01,379
what the point is he will probably find

598
00:24:06,680 --> 00:24:03,210
himself relieved and he'll probably find

599
00:24:11,570 --> 00:24:06,690
his career pretty much over if

600
00:24:12,590 --> 00:24:11,580
have a major of mistake like that you're

601
00:24:14,810 --> 00:24:12,600
pretty well screwed

602
00:24:16,400 --> 00:24:14,820
and so Blanchard had been relieved of

603
00:24:17,630 --> 00:24:16,410
his command as this document says

604
00:24:20,570 --> 00:24:17,640
blasier would have been pretty well

605
00:24:22,520 --> 00:24:20,580
screwed and we know that he ended up as

606
00:24:27,350 --> 00:24:22,530
a four-star general he was a vice

607
00:24:31,520 --> 00:24:27,360
chairman of vice Air Force vice Air

608
00:24:33,230 --> 00:24:31,530
Force chief of staff four-star general

609
00:24:36,380 --> 00:24:33,240
who died of a heart attack at the

610
00:24:39,590 --> 00:24:36,390
Pentagon so obviously his career was not

611
00:24:41,480 --> 00:24:39,600
hurt by this event in Roswell which

612
00:24:43,190 --> 00:24:41,490
suggests again the twining didn't

613
00:24:45,140 --> 00:24:43,200
relieve him of his command but and

614
00:24:47,840 --> 00:24:45,150
there's really no evidence that 20

615
00:24:50,630 --> 00:24:47,850
actually went to Roswell he was in New

616
00:24:51,740 --> 00:24:50,640
Mexico on some other things and there's

617
00:24:54,410 --> 00:24:51,750
really no evidence that he went to

618
00:24:57,410 --> 00:24:54,420
Roswell in any of the documentation so

619
00:24:59,660 --> 00:24:57,420
you can you can pretty well realize that

620
00:25:01,430 --> 00:24:59,670
that that's another major but but to

621
00:25:02,630 --> 00:25:01,440
answer your question I think the reason

622
00:25:03,860 --> 00:25:02,640
that they said that you know some of the

623
00:25:05,120 --> 00:25:03,870
names have been changed those names have

624
00:25:07,160 --> 00:25:05,130
been changed their names have been left

625
00:25:10,010 --> 00:25:07,170
out is simply because they didn't have

626
00:25:11,660 --> 00:25:10,020
access to the information or didn't know

627
00:25:13,610 --> 00:25:11,670
where to get the information and it

628
00:25:15,110 --> 00:25:13,620
won't ought to put a name in there that

629
00:25:16,490 --> 00:25:15,120
would be proven false so they just left

630
00:25:19,790 --> 00:25:16,500
it out yep

631
00:25:22,250 --> 00:25:19,800
um Kevin when I my impression and this

632
00:25:24,920 --> 00:25:22,260
is just an armchair person that knows

633
00:25:26,780 --> 00:25:24,930
nothing about military I know nothing

634
00:25:29,360 --> 00:25:26,790
about military documents or top-secret

635
00:25:31,190 --> 00:25:29,370
documents at all nothing but my

636
00:25:34,580 --> 00:25:31,200
impression when I was reading through it

637
00:25:37,040 --> 00:25:34,590
is why in any circumstance would they

638
00:25:39,680 --> 00:25:37,050
jumbled all these different incidences

639
00:25:41,060 --> 00:25:39,690
together in one document that's what

640
00:25:44,390 --> 00:25:41,070
didn't make sense to me is that

641
00:25:48,110 --> 00:25:44,400
something that would be done if you're

642
00:25:51,830 --> 00:25:48,120
trying to provide a complete overview of

643
00:25:54,140 --> 00:25:51,840
a situation you will enumerate all the

644
00:25:57,800 --> 00:25:54,150
events in this document it talks about

645
00:26:00,770 --> 00:25:57,810
Roswell it talks about Aztec and it says

646
00:26:03,520 --> 00:26:00,780
there are seven others or I guess five

647
00:26:05,900 --> 00:26:03,530
others seven total what are the others

648
00:26:08,300 --> 00:26:05,910
now if I'm the guy receiving the

649
00:26:10,250 --> 00:26:08,310
document that's my first question

650
00:26:14,000 --> 00:26:10,260
and this documents like this are

651
00:26:16,310 --> 00:26:14,010
prepared for commanders and policymakers

652
00:26:17,750 --> 00:26:16,320
at the highest level you need that you

653
00:26:19,490 --> 00:26:17,760
need that information and I think once

654
00:26:20,509 --> 00:26:19,500
again they said well but again that's an

655
00:26:22,519 --> 00:26:20,519
attempt to cover themselves

656
00:26:24,560 --> 00:26:22,529
by saying well there's other other

657
00:26:27,859 --> 00:26:24,570
events but we're not going to enumerate

658
00:26:30,529 --> 00:26:27,869
them because you know we really don't

659
00:26:33,039 --> 00:26:30,539
know and you can look at that if you

660
00:26:37,129 --> 00:26:33,049
look at the whole history of UFO crashes

661
00:26:40,369 --> 00:26:37,139
there are lists out there that

662
00:26:43,009 --> 00:26:40,379
incorporates some three or four hundred

663
00:26:44,089 --> 00:26:43,019
different different UFO crashes and I'm

664
00:26:46,789 --> 00:26:44,099
thinking you know if they're falling out

665
00:26:47,779 --> 00:26:46,799
of the sky with that regularity we'd be

666
00:26:49,519 --> 00:26:47,789
having a whole lot of different

667
00:26:51,369 --> 00:26:49,529
conversations than we do now I mean

668
00:26:55,609 --> 00:26:51,379
they're just like falling out of the sky

669
00:26:57,379 --> 00:26:55,619
I had said at one point and when I did

670
00:26:59,389 --> 00:26:57,389
crash when UFOs fall from the sky I

671
00:27:01,819 --> 00:26:59,399
thought there were five legitimate UFO

672
00:27:03,259 --> 00:27:01,829
crashes the things that were fairly well

673
00:27:05,449 --> 00:27:03,269
documented you know I'm thinking of

674
00:27:09,440 --> 00:27:05,459
Roswell specifically of course I was

675
00:27:13,239 --> 00:27:09,450
thinking of Las Vegas in 1962 of sinking

676
00:27:17,029 --> 00:27:13,249
of Kecksburg and 65 I was thinking of

677
00:27:19,009 --> 00:27:17,039
shag harbour and I was thinking of the

678
00:27:21,680 --> 00:27:19,019
one that Jim Clarkson had been talking

679
00:27:24,889 --> 00:27:21,690
about in the North West since that book

680
00:27:28,849 --> 00:27:24,899
came out I've pretty well revised that

681
00:27:29,869 --> 00:27:28,859
and and you know I'm very worried about

682
00:27:31,999 --> 00:27:29,879
some of them you know there's great

683
00:27:33,649 --> 00:27:32,009
documentation for shag harbour for

684
00:27:39,169 --> 00:27:33,659
example the Canadians being involved but

685
00:27:40,729 --> 00:27:39,179
nothing alien was recovered Kecksburg is

686
00:27:42,019 --> 00:27:40,739
very problematic now to my way of

687
00:27:43,310 --> 00:27:42,029
thinking especially with some of the

688
00:27:46,339 --> 00:27:43,320
information that's come out recently

689
00:27:47,599 --> 00:27:46,349
about it I think Las Vegas is the same

690
00:27:51,129 --> 00:27:47,609
way I think Las Vegas who is a

691
00:27:54,259 --> 00:27:51,139
combination of two events that were

692
00:27:56,509 --> 00:27:54,269
timed very close together there were

693
00:27:58,519 --> 00:27:56,519
some 1516 minutes apart and made it look

694
00:28:01,430 --> 00:27:58,529
like there was a big long event but

695
00:28:04,369 --> 00:28:01,440
there's really two separate events

696
00:28:08,829 --> 00:28:04,379
you know Roswell if you want it if you

697
00:28:10,729 --> 00:28:08,839
want to look at it dispassionately you

698
00:28:12,799 --> 00:28:10,739
and that's what I do when I wrote

699
00:28:15,709 --> 00:28:12,809
Roswell in the 21st century I wanted to

700
00:28:17,930 --> 00:28:15,719
look at the all the evidence

701
00:28:20,659 --> 00:28:17,940
dispassionately but as it's a cold case

702
00:28:22,279 --> 00:28:20,669
it's something that here is all this

703
00:28:24,249 --> 00:28:22,289
information let's see where we can take

704
00:28:27,560 --> 00:28:24,259
it and when you get down to it we have

705
00:28:31,190 --> 00:28:27,570
very few documents we have an FBI telex

706
00:28:33,019 --> 00:28:31,200
for example we have the Ramey memo which

707
00:28:33,620 --> 00:28:33,029
is the document general Ramey is holding

708
00:28:36,020 --> 00:28:33,630
in his Hey

709
00:28:37,730 --> 00:28:36,030
and which when we start talking about

710
00:28:39,260 --> 00:28:37,740
provenance here's a document with the

711
00:28:42,200 --> 00:28:39,270
perfect provenance the guys holding it

712
00:28:43,670 --> 00:28:42,210
in his hand we know when the picture was

713
00:28:45,530 --> 00:28:43,680
taken we know who took the picture

714
00:28:48,860 --> 00:28:45,540
there's documentation showing that the

715
00:28:50,030 --> 00:28:48,870
picture was taken on July 8th 1947 and

716
00:28:51,710 --> 00:28:50,040
we have general Ramey holding the

717
00:28:53,530 --> 00:28:51,720
document his hand we couldn't ask for a

718
00:28:55,490 --> 00:28:53,540
better Providence we just can't read it

719
00:28:58,130 --> 00:28:55,500
usually they don't worry or certainly

720
00:29:00,740 --> 00:28:58,140
just to stop on that particular thought

721
00:29:04,880 --> 00:29:00,750
do you think that technology will ever

722
00:29:06,350 --> 00:29:04,890
evolve enough to have that thing read or

723
00:29:06,970 --> 00:29:06,360
do you think that's just out of the

724
00:29:10,460 --> 00:29:06,980
question

725
00:29:12,680 --> 00:29:10,470
there is a consensus among those who

726
00:29:14,300 --> 00:29:12,690
deal with this sort of thing that the

727
00:29:16,250 --> 00:29:14,310
technology may improve to the point

728
00:29:18,980 --> 00:29:16,260
where we can read it and there's some

729
00:29:21,980 --> 00:29:18,990
interesting stuff being done in the

730
00:29:25,760 --> 00:29:21,990
attempts to read it I know David Rudy

731
00:29:29,480 --> 00:29:25,770
act thinks he has deciphered the thing

732
00:29:31,670 --> 00:29:29,490
pretty much in tack there are others who

733
00:29:33,170 --> 00:29:31,680
did not agree with all of his analysis

734
00:29:36,430 --> 00:29:33,180
and what we need to do is come to a

735
00:29:39,050 --> 00:29:36,440
consensus or come to a place where

736
00:29:41,510 --> 00:29:39,060
another great example the Roswell slides

737
00:29:44,300 --> 00:29:41,520
where they had the placard and they said

738
00:29:47,720 --> 00:29:44,310
it couldn't be read well you know two

739
00:29:49,430 --> 00:29:47,730
days after the a high quality scan

740
00:29:51,470 --> 00:29:49,440
high-resolution scan was available to

741
00:29:53,090 --> 00:29:51,480
researchers the placard was read it was

742
00:29:56,060 --> 00:29:53,100
decoded we could we could read it we

743
00:29:58,220 --> 00:29:56,070
knew exactly what it said and it was

744
00:29:59,870 --> 00:29:58,230
just that the technology was applied and

745
00:30:01,760 --> 00:29:59,880
we were able to read it so as our

746
00:30:03,410 --> 00:30:01,770
technology evolves we may be able to

747
00:30:04,370 --> 00:30:03,420
read it but we need to have a consensus

748
00:30:07,250 --> 00:30:04,380
and that was a thing with the Roswell

749
00:30:09,710 --> 00:30:07,260
slides there was pushback on that when

750
00:30:12,290 --> 00:30:09,720
we said it could be read but the

751
00:30:14,210 --> 00:30:12,300
consensus was and we said I should say

752
00:30:15,740 --> 00:30:14,220
we the Roswell slides research group and

753
00:30:17,510 --> 00:30:15,750
those people said well here's how we did

754
00:30:18,680 --> 00:30:17,520
it here's how we decoded it here's the

755
00:30:23,300 --> 00:30:18,690
steps you need to go through and you'll

756
00:30:24,770 --> 00:30:23,310
get the same answer we didn't so you

757
00:30:26,180 --> 00:30:24,780
know you we've got to get to the point

758
00:30:28,850 --> 00:30:26,190
where we have a consensus and with the

759
00:30:32,030 --> 00:30:28,860
Ramey memo even given the work that

760
00:30:34,310 --> 00:30:32,040
david rudy ak has done the Herculean

761
00:30:36,530 --> 00:30:34,320
effort he has put into deciphering this

762
00:30:39,740 --> 00:30:36,540
thing the problem we have is we have no

763
00:30:41,360 --> 00:30:39,750
consensus of exactly what it says there

764
00:30:44,180 --> 00:30:41,370
are a number of places where we can

765
00:30:47,420 --> 00:30:44,190
actually read words like weather

766
00:30:50,350 --> 00:30:47,430
balloons a Fort Worth Texas is spelled

767
00:30:52,970 --> 00:30:50,360
Exe for some reason now I don't know

768
00:30:54,500 --> 00:30:52,980
it's not a proper imbrie VA ssin and

769
00:30:56,750 --> 00:30:54,510
there may be something going on there

770
00:31:02,180 --> 00:30:56,760
that we don't understand but for the for

771
00:31:04,970 --> 00:31:02,190
the most part it's kind of it there is

772
00:31:06,470 --> 00:31:04,980
no real consensus of what it says and

773
00:31:08,930 --> 00:31:06,480
that's what we need we need to have a

774
00:31:11,240 --> 00:31:08,940
consensus and I can say to you if you do

775
00:31:12,980 --> 00:31:11,250
this with your technology you will read

776
00:31:15,020 --> 00:31:12,990
it well you you can find your own

777
00:31:16,700 --> 00:31:15,030
conclusions and you'll probably see what

778
00:31:18,640 --> 00:31:16,710
we have we've seen so with the Ramey

779
00:31:21,470 --> 00:31:18,650
memo right now we're at the point where

780
00:31:24,620 --> 00:31:21,480
we're just on the fringe and I think a

781
00:31:27,230 --> 00:31:24,630
couple of people said if we if if the

782
00:31:28,670 --> 00:31:27,240
camera had been a foot closer or rainy

783
00:31:31,160 --> 00:31:28,680
it turned the document just slightly

784
00:31:33,080 --> 00:31:31,170
we'd be able to read it perfectly but

785
00:31:36,770 --> 00:31:33,090
you know that that's what we're living

786
00:31:38,750 --> 00:31:36,780
living with you that so the answer is we

787
00:31:41,060 --> 00:31:38,760
may be able to get to a point where we

788
00:31:43,010 --> 00:31:41,070
have a consensus although there will

789
00:31:44,300 --> 00:31:43,020
like everything else in this field there

790
00:31:46,330 --> 00:31:44,310
will be people who will disagree with us

791
00:31:49,730 --> 00:31:46,340
no matter what we offer the way of proof

792
00:31:51,260 --> 00:31:49,740
yes yes hey in the chat we do have some

793
00:31:54,920 --> 00:31:51,270
questions in the chat room and we

794
00:31:58,100 --> 00:31:54,930
actually have the shag harbour incident

795
00:32:01,070 --> 00:31:58,110
Society interpretive is in the chat room

796
00:32:03,860 --> 00:32:01,080
right now and you just mentioned shag

797
00:32:07,310 --> 00:32:03,870
harbour I I to agree that that's one of

798
00:32:10,340 --> 00:32:07,320
the actually one of the great cases out

799
00:32:13,300 --> 00:32:10,350
there actually going to be going up

800
00:32:18,410 --> 00:32:13,310
there to their convention the fiftieth

801
00:32:20,450 --> 00:32:18,420
this this coming October I think it is I

802
00:32:22,160 --> 00:32:20,460
don't have anything here in front of me

803
00:32:25,070 --> 00:32:22,170
but going to be broadcasting live from

804
00:32:28,910 --> 00:32:25,080
that well you realize you'd have to go

805
00:32:31,100 --> 00:32:28,920
to Canada to see it oh yes no I'll be

806
00:32:33,230 --> 00:32:31,110
I'll be out of Russia by then I I hope

807
00:32:37,610 --> 00:32:33,240
I'll be on I was making fun I was making

808
00:32:43,100 --> 00:32:37,620
fun of Canada oh oh there's gonna be

809
00:32:46,370 --> 00:32:43,110
some feedback but much was hosted out of

810
00:32:47,900 --> 00:32:46,380
Hamilton Ontario Canada oh okay so yeah

811
00:32:50,510 --> 00:32:47,910
so we just we blame Canada for

812
00:32:52,400 --> 00:32:50,520
everything any any technical

813
00:32:55,190 --> 00:32:52,410
difficulties I'm sure that you blame

814
00:32:58,100 --> 00:32:55,200
with that in the end the chat room early

815
00:33:01,670 --> 00:32:58,110
on someone asks they wanted to know what

816
00:33:04,120 --> 00:33:01,680
your thoughts were about Stan Friedman's

817
00:33:07,100 --> 00:33:04,130
stance on this particular document I

818
00:33:09,110 --> 00:33:07,110
think it's evolved hasn't it originally

819
00:33:11,600 --> 00:33:09,120
was really excited about it and was

820
00:33:13,460 --> 00:33:11,610
pushing that and then and then two days

821
00:33:16,580 --> 00:33:13,470
later Friday he was on midnight in the

822
00:33:18,680 --> 00:33:16,590
desert by the way I got bumped from it

823
00:33:23,420 --> 00:33:18,690
because they were overbooked which makes

824
00:33:25,510 --> 00:33:23,430
no sense to me but on that program he

825
00:33:28,970 --> 00:33:25,520
seemed to take a more neutral stance I

826
00:33:30,710 --> 00:33:28,980
think that because I was I was ready to

827
00:33:33,680 --> 00:33:30,720
pounce on that because he's been a big

828
00:33:36,020 --> 00:33:33,690
advocate of Scot Ramsey's book and how

829
00:33:38,330 --> 00:33:36,030
well researched it is and and this mj-12

830
00:33:40,880 --> 00:33:38,340
document is it odds with Ramsey's book

831
00:33:43,280 --> 00:33:40,890
and so both of them can't be accurate

832
00:33:46,820 --> 00:33:43,290
and true I suspect they're both false

833
00:33:48,410 --> 00:33:46,830
but I was ready for that but but on the

834
00:33:51,050 --> 00:33:48,420
program he seemed to have walked back

835
00:33:52,940 --> 00:33:51,060
from his an initial excitement about it

836
00:33:54,710 --> 00:33:52,950
and his initial excitement might have

837
00:33:57,580 --> 00:33:54,720
been simply he just seen the document

838
00:34:00,680 --> 00:33:57,590
and it looked good on a very cursory

839
00:34:02,630 --> 00:34:00,690
scan of it before he got a chance to sit

840
00:34:04,990 --> 00:34:02,640
down and really read it and that was

841
00:34:07,580 --> 00:34:05,000
that was one of the reasons you know I I

842
00:34:10,730 --> 00:34:07,590
was holding office I wanted a chance to

843
00:34:12,710 --> 00:34:10,740
read the document through to see if

844
00:34:14,840 --> 00:34:12,720
there were any glory glaring errors and

845
00:34:19,700 --> 00:34:14,850
there's more red flags flying than there

846
00:34:22,159 --> 00:34:19,710
are in a communist China so we we pretty

847
00:34:23,720 --> 00:34:22,169
well figured it was a fake you know but

848
00:34:26,770 --> 00:34:23,730
I think Stan's walked it back from now

849
00:34:30,080 --> 00:34:26,780
on and I haven't heard anything from him

850
00:34:32,510 --> 00:34:30,090
since Friday the other thing is it

851
00:34:36,800 --> 00:34:32,520
mentions project Aquarius and I know

852
00:34:38,500 --> 00:34:36,810
that Stan is really kind of ignored

853
00:34:40,270 --> 00:34:38,510
project acquires did you go back to

854
00:34:42,740 --> 00:34:40,280
stinemans book and there's another clue

855
00:34:45,050 --> 00:34:42,750
there's the Aquarius document which is

856
00:34:46,639 --> 00:34:45,060
supposedly the first mj-12 document but

857
00:34:48,169 --> 00:34:46,649
I think most everybody believes the

858
00:34:51,139 --> 00:34:48,179
project Aquarius is faith

859
00:34:54,139 --> 00:34:51,149
that's faked and it evolved from project

860
00:34:56,090 --> 00:34:54,149
Aquarius into mj-12 and so you know that

861
00:34:58,940 --> 00:34:56,100
gives you kind of the evolution but the

862
00:35:00,740 --> 00:34:58,950
point is uh he mentioned project

863
00:35:03,260 --> 00:35:00,750
Aquarius when I queried him about that

864
00:35:09,500 --> 00:35:03,270
he he mentioned when I was doing my book

865
00:35:11,330 --> 00:35:09,510
mg case mj-12 I had queried him about

866
00:35:14,810 --> 00:35:11,340
project Aquarius I don't even mention it

867
00:35:18,290 --> 00:35:14,820
my papers are in the in the in my book

868
00:35:20,240 --> 00:35:18,300
and so I think he kind of ignored

869
00:35:23,480 --> 00:35:20,250
project Aquarius and now it's reared its

870
00:35:26,000 --> 00:35:23,490
ugly head again so but I think you know

871
00:35:27,710 --> 00:35:26,010
the answer is I'm not real sure what his

872
00:35:29,270 --> 00:35:27,720
opinion is at this point but he seems to

873
00:35:32,780 --> 00:35:29,280
have walked it back from his initial

874
00:35:34,670 --> 00:35:32,790
enthusiasm yes I just an update I've

875
00:35:38,440 --> 00:35:34,680
talked to people on this show in the

876
00:35:40,880 --> 00:35:38,450
past and there's no update actually is

877
00:35:42,980 --> 00:35:40,890
I'm in the fine arts and antiques

878
00:35:48,050 --> 00:35:42,990
business and I was at an auction house

879
00:35:52,430 --> 00:35:48,060
where there was a estate of a a retired

880
00:35:53,330 --> 00:35:52,440
CIA operative overseas who passed away

881
00:35:55,910 --> 00:35:53,340
several years ago

882
00:35:58,340 --> 00:35:55,920
and in his footlocker in his military

883
00:36:01,310 --> 00:35:58,350
footlocker there were a copies of the

884
00:36:03,170 --> 00:36:01,320
mj-12 documents but they were just the

885
00:36:07,310 --> 00:36:03,180
regular copies that have gone around and

886
00:36:09,290 --> 00:36:07,320
around so nothing nothing new at all but

887
00:36:10,940 --> 00:36:09,300
but let me let me interrupt you here

888
00:36:13,430 --> 00:36:10,950
because frankly that's what I do and

889
00:36:15,710 --> 00:36:13,440
it's your show and I shouldn't do it but

890
00:36:17,810 --> 00:36:15,720
not all that long ago I got a collab

891
00:36:19,550 --> 00:36:17,820
with a decade and a half ago or

892
00:36:22,520 --> 00:36:19,560
something I got a call from a guy who

893
00:36:23,930 --> 00:36:22,530
was attending a gun show and he says you

894
00:36:26,810 --> 00:36:23,940
got to get here right now this guy's got

895
00:36:30,290 --> 00:36:26,820
some secret top secret documents about

896
00:36:33,050 --> 00:36:30,300
UFOs so I rush out to the gun show

897
00:36:35,260 --> 00:36:33,060
paid my two dollars to get in and went

898
00:36:38,480 --> 00:36:35,270
over and looked at the mj-12 documents

899
00:36:42,140 --> 00:36:38,490
same ones you know yeah the same ones

900
00:36:44,480 --> 00:36:42,150
we've all seen I think they were

901
00:36:47,020 --> 00:36:44,490
partially redacted as the the ones that

902
00:36:49,820 --> 00:36:47,030
bill Moore initially released were yeah

903
00:36:51,350 --> 00:36:49,830
so you know my question was why did this

904
00:36:54,980 --> 00:36:51,360
why did this

905
00:36:56,300 --> 00:36:54,990
ex-cia you know retired CIA officer have

906
00:36:57,860 --> 00:36:56,310
them in the first place but it could

907
00:36:59,270 --> 00:36:57,870
have and I've never found out the answer

908
00:37:01,910 --> 00:36:59,280
to that I was going to speak to his son

909
00:37:03,680 --> 00:37:01,920
but he's not been available so I don't

910
00:37:06,350 --> 00:37:03,690
think there's any answer there's it's

911
00:37:08,300 --> 00:37:06,360
just maybe perhaps they were making the

912
00:37:10,790 --> 00:37:08,310
rounds because it was they thought they

913
00:37:13,190 --> 00:37:10,800
were humorous or they had an interest in

914
00:37:16,760 --> 00:37:13,200
UFOs there could be a lot of answers

915
00:37:19,250 --> 00:37:16,770
that really mean nothing yes and I've

916
00:37:23,000 --> 00:37:19,260
often I've often but back when I was

917
00:37:24,170 --> 00:37:23,010
writing novels there was we know that

918
00:37:26,570 --> 00:37:24,180
there's people who always read the last

919
00:37:27,620 --> 00:37:26,580
page of the book first yes that's me I'm

920
00:37:31,010 --> 00:37:27,630
guilty

921
00:37:34,070 --> 00:37:31,020
so Bob Bob tonight we're writing a book

922
00:37:37,070 --> 00:37:34,080
about the special forces in Vietnam and

923
00:37:39,140 --> 00:37:37,080
we we ensure did something at the end of

924
00:37:40,760 --> 00:37:39,150
the book that you would think an event

925
00:37:43,040 --> 00:37:40,770
would take place in the book at some

926
00:37:44,480 --> 00:37:43,050
point which never does but when you get

927
00:37:45,200 --> 00:37:44,490
to lay in the book that sentence makes

928
00:37:47,090 --> 00:37:45,210
sense to you

929
00:37:53,180 --> 00:37:47,100
so you're expecting something and it

930
00:37:54,710 --> 00:37:53,190
never happens because it the way we the

931
00:37:57,170 --> 00:37:54,720
way we had constructed the other things

932
00:38:00,650 --> 00:37:57,180
we did we had a glossary of the Vietnam

933
00:38:03,230 --> 00:38:00,660
terms in there and we we put in the

934
00:38:07,340 --> 00:38:03,240
glossary horse and then we put

935
00:38:09,800 --> 00:38:07,350
Seabiscuit Seabiscuit was a horse right

936
00:38:11,540 --> 00:38:09,810
a wreath or but it's s EE biscuit

937
00:38:15,220 --> 00:38:11,550
Seabiscuit then you go up to biscuit

938
00:38:17,240 --> 00:38:15,230
there was there was a system nonsensical

939
00:38:19,010 --> 00:38:17,250
explanation for what it was which wasn't

940
00:38:21,140 --> 00:38:19,020
used in Vietnam but we just want to put

941
00:38:23,210 --> 00:38:21,150
that joke in the book a horse Seabiscuit

942
00:38:27,290 --> 00:38:23,220
you know and nobody ever catches these

943
00:38:29,780 --> 00:38:27,300
things yeah the other thing I go off on

944
00:38:32,660 --> 00:38:29,790
one more tangent for you Bob and I were

945
00:38:35,300 --> 00:38:32,670
doing a book on the Alamo and we were a

946
00:38:37,820 --> 00:38:35,310
time travel book and one of the

947
00:38:41,470 --> 00:38:37,830
characters name was Tom waters and so I

948
00:38:44,480 --> 00:38:41,480
wrote the line waters rushed uphill yeah

949
00:38:46,040 --> 00:38:44,490
Bob says you can't do that and I said

950
00:38:47,390 --> 00:38:46,050
nobody is ever going to pick it up

951
00:38:51,640 --> 00:38:47,400
because it's the name of the character

952
00:38:54,740 --> 00:38:51,650
it flows naturally water thrust uphill

953
00:38:56,810 --> 00:38:54,750
and I expect other writers do the same

954
00:38:58,580 --> 00:38:56,820
thing you know put these little nuggets

955
00:39:01,070 --> 00:38:58,590
in there that are amusing to them that

956
00:39:03,050 --> 00:39:01,080
the general public doesn't get so well

957
00:39:05,930 --> 00:39:03,060
every what the revelant was but there

958
00:39:09,170 --> 00:39:05,940
you go well if you're posting on social

959
00:39:11,150 --> 00:39:09,180
media today if you write anything other

960
00:39:13,790 --> 00:39:11,160
than what's in the picture people won't

961
00:39:16,220 --> 00:39:13,800
even notice it they notice the picture I

962
00:39:18,020 --> 00:39:16,230
think I think it's to the point that

963
00:39:19,520 --> 00:39:18,030
there's just so much information flying

964
00:39:21,740 --> 00:39:19,530
all over the place that people don't

965
00:39:23,540 --> 00:39:21,750
even take time to read anything

966
00:39:24,830 --> 00:39:23,550
well they don't not only that they don't

967
00:39:26,720 --> 00:39:24,840
even take time to analyze it because

968
00:39:29,300 --> 00:39:26,730
some of the things that you you see are

969
00:39:32,960 --> 00:39:29,310
so diametrically opposed to the facts

970
00:39:34,550 --> 00:39:32,970
that you you should say well this just

971
00:39:37,100 --> 00:39:34,560
can't possibly be true and yet they

972
00:39:38,840 --> 00:39:37,110
accept it because they've read somewhere

973
00:39:40,990 --> 00:39:38,850
because you know you can't put anything

974
00:39:43,750 --> 00:39:41,000
on the internet that isn't true

975
00:39:47,710 --> 00:39:43,760
hey Kevin I want to ask you off the bat

976
00:39:51,310 --> 00:39:47,720
have you received like negative emails

977
00:39:53,020 --> 00:39:51,320
or people really upset that you're there

978
00:39:55,990 --> 00:39:53,030
saying you're debunking this or anything

979
00:39:58,540 --> 00:39:56,000
like that on this particular thing no I

980
00:40:02,260 --> 00:39:58,550
think I think practically everybody is

981
00:40:05,950 --> 00:40:02,270
in agreement uh Steve Bassett I had him

982
00:40:06,670 --> 00:40:05,960
on my show Saturday and I thought we

983
00:40:09,130 --> 00:40:06,680
were going to have a very nice

984
00:40:11,770 --> 00:40:09,140
discussion about this this document

985
00:40:13,720 --> 00:40:11,780
where he would be advocating its its

986
00:40:16,840 --> 00:40:13,730
legitimacy and I would be suggesting no

987
00:40:18,220 --> 00:40:16,850
it's not true and in the first 30

988
00:40:19,600 --> 00:40:18,230
seconds he says well you know that

989
00:40:21,730 --> 00:40:19,610
documents are fake and I'm going oh

990
00:40:24,430 --> 00:40:21,740
great now what do I talk about you know

991
00:40:26,640 --> 00:40:24,440
we're we're on the same page here pal we

992
00:40:30,010 --> 00:40:26,650
don't get any have any kind of dialogue

993
00:40:31,180 --> 00:40:30,020
and I mean he was very excited about it

994
00:40:32,590 --> 00:40:31,190
when he when he called me on the

995
00:40:34,510 --> 00:40:32,600
Wednesday but by the time he got to

996
00:40:39,040 --> 00:40:34,520
Saturday he'd pretty well realized that

997
00:40:40,750 --> 00:40:39,050
the the thing was was faked um so I got

998
00:40:43,450 --> 00:40:40,760
nothing like that you know I always try

999
00:40:46,480 --> 00:40:43,460
to hold the door on the defensive end of

1000
00:40:48,670 --> 00:40:46,490
these things I I think we have to put up

1001
00:40:52,300 --> 00:40:48,680
a great defense if we're going to look

1002
00:40:53,920 --> 00:40:52,310
at UFOs we have to be able to defend our

1003
00:40:56,590 --> 00:40:53,930
positions for one thing but we also have

1004
00:41:00,250 --> 00:40:56,600
to we have to point out the things that

1005
00:41:02,290 --> 00:41:00,260
are our faults and too often people are

1006
00:41:04,300 --> 00:41:02,300
looking for us to validate their bolon

1007
00:41:07,780 --> 00:41:04,310
belief structure and that just doesn't

1008
00:41:11,440 --> 00:41:07,790
help us at all you know somebody really

1009
00:41:16,000 --> 00:41:11,450
wants to believe in in any of the

1010
00:41:18,000 --> 00:41:16,010
mirrored subparts of UFO research and

1011
00:41:20,410 --> 00:41:18,010
you suggest that this case is maybe

1012
00:41:22,240 --> 00:41:20,420
fraudulent or that case is bad or

1013
00:41:24,130 --> 00:41:22,250
something no matter what evidence you

1014
00:41:25,690 --> 00:41:24,140
present there are people who are going

1015
00:41:31,480 --> 00:41:25,700
to be annoyed about it I had done

1016
00:41:34,210 --> 00:41:31,490
something with this general Lufkin the

1017
00:41:35,920 --> 00:41:34,220
lawyer from South Carolina who was one

1018
00:41:42,730 --> 00:41:35,930
of the people said he had chatted with

1019
00:41:44,590 --> 00:41:42,740
ice Hauer about the UFO crashes or

1020
00:41:47,290 --> 00:41:44,600
something and he big became a big source

1021
00:41:48,940 --> 00:41:47,300
and I discovered that laughs Lufkin was

1022
00:41:51,990 --> 00:41:48,950
a general in what was called the State

1023
00:41:54,420 --> 00:41:52,000
Guard Association

1024
00:41:57,089 --> 00:41:54,430
which is sort of a civilian organization

1025
00:42:00,660 --> 00:41:57,099
that in some states it's looked on as a

1026
00:42:02,160 --> 00:42:00,670
a civilian auxiliary to the National

1027
00:42:06,030 --> 00:42:02,170
Guard of things like that it really has

1028
00:42:07,859 --> 00:42:06,040
no real status but he was a brigadier

1029
00:42:09,450 --> 00:42:07,869
general in that they kept saying that

1030
00:42:10,980 --> 00:42:09,460
and I pointed out that you know this

1031
00:42:12,690 --> 00:42:10,990
really isn't legitimate in fact I joined

1032
00:42:14,849 --> 00:42:12,700
the organization became a Major General

1033
00:42:18,030 --> 00:42:14,859
and it just to prove I could do it and

1034
00:42:21,330 --> 00:42:18,040
the I got a lot of blowback on that

1035
00:42:23,339 --> 00:42:21,340
people really annoyed about it but I'm

1036
00:42:25,890 --> 00:42:23,349
thinking you know if we're going to

1037
00:42:27,810 --> 00:42:25,900
understand the phenomenon if we're going

1038
00:42:30,060 --> 00:42:27,820
to understand what's going on we have to

1039
00:42:31,380 --> 00:42:30,070
look at all the stuff and I can't tell

1040
00:42:35,820 --> 00:42:31,390
you the number of people that have

1041
00:42:39,020 --> 00:42:35,830
claimed to be military veterans who were

1042
00:42:43,170 --> 00:42:39,030
not or or or claiming a lot higher rank

1043
00:42:46,290 --> 00:42:43,180
or position then they actually had great

1044
00:42:47,790 --> 00:42:46,300
example gets back to mj-12 the original

1045
00:42:50,160 --> 00:42:47,800
document the Eisenhower briefing

1046
00:42:54,210 --> 00:42:50,170
document there's this story paragraph on

1047
00:42:57,690 --> 00:42:54,220
this crash on December 6 1915 near El

1048
00:42:58,829 --> 00:42:57,700
Indio Guerrero in just across the border

1049
00:43:00,960 --> 00:42:58,839
from from Texas

1050
00:43:03,420 --> 00:43:00,970
and it's an outgrowth of the story told

1051
00:43:05,910 --> 00:43:03,430
by this guy named Robert Willingham and

1052
00:43:07,589 --> 00:43:05,920
the story that we had Willingham was a

1053
00:43:09,050 --> 00:43:07,599
retired colonel from the United States

1054
00:43:11,099 --> 00:43:09,060
Air Force he's been a fighter pilot

1055
00:43:13,829 --> 00:43:11,109
nobody had ever bothered to check his

1056
00:43:18,290 --> 00:43:13,839
military record until I did it like you

1057
00:43:20,630 --> 00:43:18,300
know 15 years ago and it turned out that

1058
00:43:24,320 --> 00:43:20,640
Willingham had been in the military for

1059
00:43:27,390 --> 00:43:24,330
thirteen months he joined in December of

1060
00:43:28,950 --> 00:43:27,400
1945 which makes him technically a

1061
00:43:32,460 --> 00:43:28,960
veteran of world war ii because a war

1062
00:43:34,829 --> 00:43:32,470
didn't technically until 1946 so he's

1063
00:43:37,890 --> 00:43:34,839
technically a veteran of World War two

1064
00:43:40,200 --> 00:43:37,900
he didn't never heard a shot fired in

1065
00:43:42,599 --> 00:43:40,210
anger he was in for thirteen months

1066
00:43:43,680 --> 00:43:42,609
that's his military career but he's

1067
00:43:45,839 --> 00:43:43,690
telling everybody he was a fighter pilot

1068
00:43:48,000 --> 00:43:45,849
he was chasing these UFOs over Texas

1069
00:43:51,960 --> 00:43:48,010
first it was in 1948 then it was 1950

1070
00:43:54,450 --> 00:43:51,970
and then it was in 1950s and and that

1071
00:43:57,270 --> 00:43:54,460
sort of thing and looking at that the

1072
00:43:58,829 --> 00:43:57,280
story he told it's just it doesn't it

1073
00:44:01,140 --> 00:43:58,839
isn't true I mean his military

1074
00:44:03,329 --> 00:44:01,150
background is the 13 months he was in

1075
00:44:05,260 --> 00:44:03,339
the Civil Air Patrol which is an Air

1076
00:44:08,430 --> 00:44:05,270
Force Auxiliary civilians and they

1077
00:44:13,330 --> 00:44:08,440
they perform a wonderful wonderful

1078
00:44:15,640 --> 00:44:13,340
service by taking the burden of search

1079
00:44:17,230 --> 00:44:15,650
and rescue off the active duty forces in

1080
00:44:19,270 --> 00:44:17,240
other words you if you're a Civil Air

1081
00:44:21,790 --> 00:44:19,280
Patrol member and you have an airplane

1082
00:44:25,270 --> 00:44:21,800
and there's what they used to call a red

1083
00:44:26,830 --> 00:44:25,280
cap which is a legitimate search you're

1084
00:44:28,810 --> 00:44:26,840
called up and you're given a grid you go

1085
00:44:30,730 --> 00:44:28,820
out and search this grid flying your

1086
00:44:32,470 --> 00:44:30,740
airplane so then the government will pay

1087
00:44:33,760 --> 00:44:32,480
for your cost of your fuel and things

1088
00:44:36,010 --> 00:44:33,770
like that so you get to fly your

1089
00:44:37,330 --> 00:44:36,020
airplane for free which is you know a

1090
00:44:41,170 --> 00:44:37,340
lot of people will see lots of great

1091
00:44:43,330 --> 00:44:41,180
deal but you're not part of the Air

1092
00:44:44,830 --> 00:44:43,340
Force you're an auxilary to the Air

1093
00:44:49,450 --> 00:44:44,840
Force you do not get retirement points

1094
00:44:52,180 --> 00:44:49,460
for it but Willingham tried to switch

1095
00:44:54,250 --> 00:44:52,190
his Civil Air Patrol service into the

1096
00:44:55,120 --> 00:44:54,260
Air Force Reserve and get a pension in

1097
00:44:57,520 --> 00:44:55,130
other words he was trying to commit

1098
00:45:01,240 --> 00:44:57,530
fraud which doesn't make him look very

1099
00:45:03,310 --> 00:45:01,250
good he said that he gotten out of the

1100
00:45:04,600 --> 00:45:03,320
active-duty Air Force because he had

1101
00:45:06,070 --> 00:45:04,610
been injured they wouldn't let him fly

1102
00:45:09,460 --> 00:45:06,080
fighters anymore but they let him fly

1103
00:45:11,110 --> 00:45:09,470
fighters in the Air Force Reserve I had

1104
00:45:13,030 --> 00:45:11,120
a number of friends when I was still in

1105
00:45:14,770 --> 00:45:13,040
the National Guard and I was assigned to

1106
00:45:18,280 --> 00:45:14,780
our state headquarters and of course

1107
00:45:19,750 --> 00:45:18,290
they hesitate to use the term given the

1108
00:45:21,700 --> 00:45:19,760
way it goes but it was a purple

1109
00:45:23,710 --> 00:45:21,710
headquarters which mean it had red army

1110
00:45:25,270 --> 00:45:23,720
and blue airforce so it was a combined

1111
00:45:27,250 --> 00:45:25,280
headquarter so I had a lot of friends

1112
00:45:29,170 --> 00:45:27,260
who were there fighter pilots so I asked

1113
00:45:31,780 --> 00:45:29,180
one of them bought it he said now that's

1114
00:45:34,270 --> 00:45:31,790
not true he said the reason you would be

1115
00:45:37,770 --> 00:45:34,280
disqualified from flying fighters is if

1116
00:45:40,540 --> 00:45:37,780
the injuries had been such that the

1117
00:45:42,070 --> 00:45:40,550
forces of ejection would would injure

1118
00:45:44,920 --> 00:45:42,080
you more or you wouldn't be able to

1119
00:45:46,300 --> 00:45:44,930
stand the forces of ejection you could

1120
00:45:47,920 --> 00:45:46,310
be transferred into flying transport

1121
00:45:49,300 --> 00:45:47,930
airplanes or something else like that so

1122
00:45:53,410 --> 00:45:49,310
you continued flying in the Air Force

1123
00:45:54,850 --> 00:45:53,420
you just your jobs would be limited and

1124
00:45:57,040 --> 00:45:54,860
you wouldn't move from the active

1125
00:45:59,860 --> 00:45:57,050
service to the the reserve because the

1126
00:46:04,270 --> 00:45:59,870
same force is applied just something

1127
00:46:05,320 --> 00:46:04,280
that he didn't know but so so that kind

1128
00:46:07,090 --> 00:46:05,330
of calls into question the whole

1129
00:46:08,830 --> 00:46:07,100
Eisenhower briefing document because you

1130
00:46:12,160 --> 00:46:08,840
have this paragraph about this event

1131
00:46:14,110 --> 00:46:12,170
that Willingham invented in 1968 I found

1132
00:46:16,680 --> 00:46:14,120
the original quotes in fact in the old

1133
00:46:19,090 --> 00:46:16,690
sky look which was MUFON journals

1134
00:46:24,050 --> 00:46:19,100
original

1135
00:46:28,250 --> 00:46:24,060
incarnation so yo yo this to me was like

1136
00:46:29,960 --> 00:46:28,260
the fatal flaw in the Eisenhower

1137
00:46:32,210 --> 00:46:29,970
briefing document takes the whole thing

1138
00:46:33,800 --> 00:46:32,220
down right but but but the point is you

1139
00:46:36,340 --> 00:46:33,810
know here's a guy who claimed military

1140
00:46:40,280 --> 00:46:36,350
record military service at a high level

1141
00:46:42,620 --> 00:46:40,290
he when we checked the military records

1142
00:46:46,070 --> 00:46:42,630
it didn't hold up there were pictures of

1143
00:46:48,500 --> 00:46:46,080
him in Air Force uniform so one from the

1144
00:46:49,520 --> 00:46:48,510
1960s and people said well how could you

1145
00:46:53,960 --> 00:46:49,530
have a picture of him in Air Force

1146
00:46:55,400 --> 00:46:53,970
uniform as an Air Force officer if he he

1147
00:46:57,980 --> 00:46:55,410
wasn't in the Air Force I looked at the

1148
00:47:00,830 --> 00:46:57,990
picture and I said it's a Civil Air

1149
00:47:02,270 --> 00:47:00,840
Patrol uniform pal and the giveaway was

1150
00:47:04,400 --> 00:47:02,280
on the collar you could see the c.a.p

1151
00:47:08,720 --> 00:47:04,410
and the the Civil Air Patrol wears a

1152
00:47:11,390 --> 00:47:08,730
metal badge over the right pocket

1153
00:47:13,370 --> 00:47:11,400
that said Civil Air Patrol Air Force

1154
00:47:16,010 --> 00:47:13,380
auxilary or something like that US Air

1155
00:47:18,680 --> 00:47:16,020
Force auxilary and you could see it on

1156
00:47:20,210 --> 00:47:18,690
the picture so it wasn't it was an Air

1157
00:47:21,530 --> 00:47:20,220
Force uniform yes but it was Civil Air

1158
00:47:23,330 --> 00:47:21,540
Patrol and then in the other pictures

1159
00:47:26,780 --> 00:47:23,340
he's got on the Civil Air Patrol ribbons

1160
00:47:28,940 --> 00:47:26,790
in the Civil Air Patrol you you can wear

1161
00:47:30,860 --> 00:47:28,950
ribbons you earned in the military in

1162
00:47:33,200 --> 00:47:30,870
other words all the ribbons I earned as

1163
00:47:34,490 --> 00:47:33,210
an army officer

1164
00:47:36,500 --> 00:47:34,500
I could wear on my Civil Air Patrol

1165
00:47:38,300 --> 00:47:36,510
uniform and they would take precedent

1166
00:47:40,760 --> 00:47:38,310
above any ribbons I earned in the Civil

1167
00:47:42,200 --> 00:47:40,770
Air Patrol and in his uniform in the

1168
00:47:45,890 --> 00:47:42,210
pictures that I've seen he's got both

1169
00:47:49,460 --> 00:47:45,900
the Civil Air Patrol ribbons and some

1170
00:47:52,550 --> 00:47:49,470
ribbons I don't think he earned millions

1171
00:47:54,080 --> 00:47:52,560
from them from the Air Force so you know

1172
00:47:57,080 --> 00:47:54,090
it's clearly a Civil Air Patrol uniform

1173
00:47:59,570 --> 00:47:57,090
as opposed to a to an Air Force uniform

1174
00:48:00,800 --> 00:47:59,580
so I mean but but a lot of people would

1175
00:48:02,660 --> 00:48:00,810
look at that and they they didn't pick

1176
00:48:04,640 --> 00:48:02,670
up on that they saw him in the the khaki

1177
00:48:06,950 --> 00:48:04,650
uniform from the mid-1960s what was

1178
00:48:08,930 --> 00:48:06,960
called the I think was a 505 you're

1179
00:48:10,910 --> 00:48:08,940
gonna form and they say well here's an

1180
00:48:12,710 --> 00:48:10,920
Air Force uniform in the mid-1960s how

1181
00:48:14,420 --> 00:48:12,720
do you explain that the answer is is not

1182
00:48:17,990 --> 00:48:14,430
an Air Force uniform pal that's the blur

1183
00:48:20,780 --> 00:48:18,000
patrol yeah well back in I think about

1184
00:48:22,430 --> 00:48:20,790
two or three years ago I had bill burns

1185
00:48:26,480 --> 00:48:22,440
was on the show and we were talking

1186
00:48:28,570 --> 00:48:26,490
about the kaalia kaalia me I'm trying to

1187
00:48:30,560 --> 00:48:28,580
remember what it's called Koyomi

1188
00:48:33,920 --> 00:48:30,570
mexico crash

1189
00:48:36,440 --> 00:48:33,930
yes collision when the small airplane I

1190
00:48:38,360 --> 00:48:36,450
you know collides supposedly with the

1191
00:48:41,420 --> 00:48:38,370
UFO yes

1192
00:48:45,080 --> 00:48:41,430
and the military got involved well that

1193
00:48:48,290 --> 00:48:45,090
was 1974 and I had someone was listening

1194
00:48:49,760 --> 00:48:48,300
live at the time wrote me during the

1195
00:48:52,310 --> 00:48:49,770
show in the chat room and said that they

1196
00:48:55,280 --> 00:48:52,320
were actually one of the military people

1197
00:48:57,800 --> 00:48:55,290
on the US so that was their on-site well

1198
00:49:00,620 --> 00:48:57,810
I looked into the guys record as much as

1199
00:49:03,020 --> 00:49:00,630
I could and yes he it did show that he

1200
00:49:05,180 --> 00:49:03,030
was in I think he was in the perhaps the

1201
00:49:07,400 --> 00:49:05,190
army or something like that or and this

1202
00:49:09,550 --> 00:49:07,410
was all through social media that I was

1203
00:49:13,940 --> 00:49:09,560
looking and then I saw his birthdate

1204
00:49:16,700 --> 00:49:13,950
1965 I saw a nice try you can't be nine

1205
00:49:19,040 --> 00:49:16,710
years old and be doing that so I'm sure

1206
00:49:21,740 --> 00:49:19,050
there's a there are I mean just with my

1207
00:49:23,780 --> 00:49:21,750
short experience there must be a lot of

1208
00:49:26,180 --> 00:49:23,790
people that are you know trying to get

1209
00:49:27,920 --> 00:49:26,190
some type of glory out of certain you

1210
00:49:29,450 --> 00:49:27,930
know situations like you just mentioned

1211
00:49:31,280 --> 00:49:29,460
well there's there's something called

1212
00:49:33,110 --> 00:49:31,290
Stolen Valor which is people wearing

1213
00:49:35,030 --> 00:49:33,120
military awards and decorations they did

1214
00:49:36,740 --> 00:49:35,040
not err and wear military uniforms that

1215
00:49:39,050 --> 00:49:36,750
they they are not authorized to wear and

1216
00:49:40,850 --> 00:49:39,060
things like that and you can check those

1217
00:49:42,950 --> 00:49:40,860
I was reading an obituary from a guy in

1218
00:49:44,990 --> 00:49:42,960
the paper and said he was a Vietnam

1219
00:49:49,490 --> 00:49:45,000
veteran and I looked at his birth date

1220
00:49:52,250 --> 00:49:49,500
and he was born in 1957 I'm thinking no

1221
00:49:53,960 --> 00:49:52,260
you weren't at a Vietnam veteran our

1222
00:49:58,370 --> 00:49:53,970
forces were pretty much out of Vietnam

1223
00:50:00,560 --> 00:49:58,380
by 72 but we did have some specialized

1224
00:50:04,510 --> 00:50:00,570
forces I'd say specialized as opposed to

1225
00:50:07,490 --> 00:50:04,520
special forces in Vietnam till April of

1226
00:50:09,340 --> 00:50:07,500
1975 but none of those people would have

1227
00:50:14,480 --> 00:50:09,350
been 18 years old yet have to be there

1228
00:50:18,470 --> 00:50:14,490
1955 or before to be in Vietnam um yeah

1229
00:50:20,210 --> 00:50:18,480
pretty much pretty much and so so it you

1230
00:50:21,890 --> 00:50:20,220
know just all little things like that

1231
00:50:23,270 --> 00:50:21,900
and I'm thinking you know do I write the

1232
00:50:26,690 --> 00:50:23,280
newspaper and say well this guy's a

1233
00:50:28,220 --> 00:50:26,700
lying sack of guys dead you know and his

1234
00:50:30,710 --> 00:50:28,230
family cannot be happy with that

1235
00:50:32,360 --> 00:50:30,720
yeah so I the other thing is I was

1236
00:50:36,350 --> 00:50:32,370
reading the paper and it said talked

1237
00:50:38,180 --> 00:50:36,360
about this guy from this poor poor soul

1238
00:50:39,320 --> 00:50:38,190
who had been on the Titanic managed to

1239
00:50:41,930 --> 00:50:39,330
survive that and had been on the

1240
00:50:44,450 --> 00:50:41,940
Lusitania and it gave all these details

1241
00:50:46,790 --> 00:50:44,460
and I finally wrote and I've got a book

1242
00:50:49,460 --> 00:50:46,800
here this lists all the survivors off

1243
00:50:55,220 --> 00:50:49,470
the Titanic and his name was not among

1244
00:50:56,270 --> 00:50:55,230
them Wow so uh yeah I mean and now in

1245
00:50:57,740 --> 00:50:56,280
today's world you could go on the

1246
00:50:59,329 --> 00:50:57,750
internet and you can type in you know

1247
00:51:01,220 --> 00:50:59,339
Titanic survivors and get the whole list

1248
00:51:03,020 --> 00:51:01,230
of names but he wasn't he wasn't among

1249
00:51:04,700 --> 00:51:03,030
it so this guy was this guy had been

1250
00:51:06,620 --> 00:51:04,710
running around in the 1930s claiming

1251
00:51:08,810 --> 00:51:06,630
that or the other one that I always cite

1252
00:51:10,160 --> 00:51:08,820
is at one point at the turn of the

1253
00:51:13,390 --> 00:51:10,170
century and by that I mean the last

1254
00:51:16,310 --> 00:51:13,400
century from 1899 to 1900 there were

1255
00:51:18,170 --> 00:51:16,320
carnivals all over the country and if 15

1256
00:51:20,930 --> 00:51:18,180
guys claiming to be the real Jesse James

1257
00:51:23,000 --> 00:51:20,940
hmm well you know 14 of them had to be

1258
00:51:24,859 --> 00:51:23,010
laughs yeah

1259
00:51:27,680 --> 00:51:24,869
yeah well you know it's it's a little

1260
00:51:30,530 --> 00:51:27,690
bit bringing the UFO topic back into it

1261
00:51:31,720 --> 00:51:30,540
it's a little bit like a UFO like

1262
00:51:34,730 --> 00:51:31,730
Rendlesham forest

1263
00:51:36,620 --> 00:51:34,740
you know there's questions you know

1264
00:51:39,290 --> 00:51:36,630
going back and forth about Larry Warren

1265
00:51:41,930 --> 00:51:39,300
whether he was actually there when he

1266
00:51:43,400 --> 00:51:41,940
actually there's you know I don't know

1267
00:51:46,220 --> 00:51:43,410
we don't have to get into that at all

1268
00:51:48,410 --> 00:51:46,230
but I mean supposedly there's a letter

1269
00:51:50,359 --> 00:51:48,420
written to his mother that says he's

1270
00:51:52,730 --> 00:51:50,369
talking about his roommate that was

1271
00:51:54,170 --> 00:51:52,740
actually there you know so I know

1272
00:51:55,730 --> 00:51:54,180
there's controversy and I know when

1273
00:51:57,950 --> 00:51:55,740
something major like that happens

1274
00:52:00,470 --> 00:51:57,960
there's a lot of people that want to you

1275
00:52:02,960 --> 00:52:00,480
know when they know enough information

1276
00:52:04,820 --> 00:52:02,970
about it they want to get some of the

1277
00:52:06,680 --> 00:52:04,830
glory from it I guess that's what it it

1278
00:52:08,540 --> 00:52:06,690
all was there is absolutely there's

1279
00:52:11,710 --> 00:52:08,550
absolutely no question the Larry warm

1280
00:52:15,800 --> 00:52:11,720
was serving at the base there in

1281
00:52:18,770 --> 00:52:15,810
December of 1980 I have seen videotape

1282
00:52:20,900 --> 00:52:18,780
Russ st's had interviewed Warren at

1283
00:52:22,579 --> 00:52:20,910
length and Warren was saying when the

1284
00:52:25,730 --> 00:52:22,589
event took place he was on leave in

1285
00:52:27,620 --> 00:52:25,740
Germany Charles halt said no when the

1286
00:52:29,030 --> 00:52:27,630
third night took place Warren was

1287
00:52:31,190 --> 00:52:29,040
actually drunk in the barracks and was

1288
00:52:34,670 --> 00:52:31,200
not a part of the the activities there

1289
00:52:37,430 --> 00:52:34,680
but Warren was there and heard his

1290
00:52:39,560 --> 00:52:37,440
colleagues Warren had been in the Air

1291
00:52:41,150 --> 00:52:39,570
Force for what eight months or something

1292
00:52:44,210 --> 00:52:41,160
like that when he when he was assigned

1293
00:52:47,599 --> 00:52:44,220
there so he didn't have a very lengthy

1294
00:52:49,849 --> 00:52:47,609
military career there's no question he

1295
00:52:51,290 --> 00:52:49,859
was a sign into the base the real

1296
00:52:52,790 --> 00:52:51,300
question is was did he participate in

1297
00:52:54,710 --> 00:52:52,800
the events or did he just hear his

1298
00:52:56,870 --> 00:52:54,720
colleagues talking about it I suspect he

1299
00:52:58,320 --> 00:52:56,880
just heard his colleagues talk about it

1300
00:53:03,090 --> 00:52:58,330
I know hald is

1301
00:53:06,090 --> 00:53:03,100
just livid you're Larry Warren and I

1302
00:53:07,410 --> 00:53:06,100
think over-the-top livid on that but I

1303
00:53:10,290 --> 00:53:07,420
mean then there's another example the

1304
00:53:11,790 --> 00:53:10,300
guy it was at least there yeah he may

1305
00:53:14,100 --> 00:53:11,800
not have been a participant in the

1306
00:53:16,230 --> 00:53:14,110
events but he was at least there you

1307
00:53:18,330 --> 00:53:16,240
know III say that sometimes about people

1308
00:53:20,400 --> 00:53:18,340
in Vietnam who claim they were in

1309
00:53:24,060 --> 00:53:20,410
Vietnam at least they were there even

1310
00:53:26,730 --> 00:53:24,070
though they were in a fairly fairly safe

1311
00:53:29,370 --> 00:53:26,740
pat sajak from yeah

1312
00:53:32,130 --> 00:53:29,380
wheel of fortune was in Vietnam I spent

1313
00:53:33,600 --> 00:53:32,140
the longest time when we would go out to

1314
00:53:35,670 --> 00:53:33,610
pre-flight the aircraft before the

1315
00:53:38,570 --> 00:53:35,680
missions you know the automatic

1316
00:53:41,070 --> 00:53:38,580
direction finder covers the broadcast

1317
00:53:43,260 --> 00:53:41,080
radio band so we could listen to the

1318
00:53:45,450 --> 00:53:43,270
radio and so we would listen to the

1319
00:53:47,430 --> 00:53:45,460
radio as we were checking in with

1320
00:53:50,970 --> 00:53:47,440
operations and all that and we'd hear

1321
00:53:53,010 --> 00:53:50,980
Pat Sajak you know he was Army PFC Pat

1322
00:53:54,860 --> 00:53:53,020
jaha Sajak I always thought it was a

1323
00:53:58,080 --> 00:53:54,870
tape that they had flown over from from

1324
00:54:01,230 --> 00:53:58,090
the States for him but actually he is he

1325
00:54:02,670 --> 00:54:01,240
was in Saigon doing his radio show like

1326
00:54:04,770 --> 00:54:02,680
so there was a guy and Williams good

1327
00:54:06,720 --> 00:54:04,780
morning Vietnam right well Robin

1328
00:54:09,180 --> 00:54:06,730
Williams wasn't in there I don't there I

1329
00:54:11,880 --> 00:54:09,190
know I'm just saying like the movie he

1330
00:54:14,190 --> 00:54:11,890
was the raw announcer yes and they were

1331
00:54:17,490 --> 00:54:14,200
they were in Saigon doing the Armed

1332
00:54:18,870 --> 00:54:17,500
Forces Radio afvn and and here's here's

1333
00:54:20,370 --> 00:54:18,880
one more war story and I don't mean to

1334
00:54:22,440 --> 00:54:20,380
do this but but we would always listen

1335
00:54:24,450 --> 00:54:22,450
to the radio while we're flying the

1336
00:54:25,980 --> 00:54:24,460
missions you know I got the the ADF

1337
00:54:27,570 --> 00:54:25,990
going in the background listen like when

1338
00:54:29,700 --> 00:54:27,580
you're driving your car had all the

1339
00:54:32,100 --> 00:54:29,710
other radios going to and in if there

1340
00:54:34,410 --> 00:54:32,110
was a good song on the radio somebody

1341
00:54:36,000 --> 00:54:34,420
would just key the mic and say ADF which

1342
00:54:36,990 --> 00:54:36,010
means you needed to turn on your ADF if

1343
00:54:39,060 --> 00:54:37,000
you weren't listening to it so you get

1344
00:54:42,660 --> 00:54:39,070
here the good tune so we're going into

1345
00:54:43,890 --> 00:54:42,670
it idle Z we're taking fire and sand in

1346
00:54:47,100 --> 00:54:43,900
the middle of all this shooting somebody

1347
00:54:49,230 --> 00:54:47,110
says ATF him what it was was Arthur

1348
00:54:52,740 --> 00:54:49,240
Arthur Brown the crazy world of Arthur

1349
00:54:53,370 --> 00:54:52,750
Brown and he was singing fire good

1350
00:54:55,710 --> 00:54:53,380
timing

1351
00:54:58,980 --> 00:54:55,720
Wow so yeah that's what I thought so

1352
00:55:03,450 --> 00:54:58,990
anyway but I digress and I don't mean to

1353
00:55:06,360 --> 00:55:03,460
the point simply is I think you know too

1354
00:55:08,520 --> 00:55:06,370
often people do not check the

1355
00:55:10,680 --> 00:55:08,530
backgrounds of those claiming military

1356
00:55:12,000 --> 00:55:10,690
service and we end up with these guys

1357
00:55:13,590 --> 00:55:12,010
making claims about

1358
00:55:15,510 --> 00:55:13,600
high-ranking officers saying this that

1359
00:55:17,340 --> 00:55:15,520
or the other thing and it turns out that

1360
00:55:20,370 --> 00:55:17,350
they weren't in a position to know they

1361
00:55:21,600 --> 00:55:20,380
they weren't who they did not hold the

1362
00:55:23,040 --> 00:55:21,610
positions they claimed and they didn't

1363
00:55:24,360 --> 00:55:23,050
know how to hold the ranks they claimed

1364
00:55:27,800 --> 00:55:24,370
and that kind of undercuts any

1365
00:55:31,770 --> 00:55:27,810
credibility they they would have mm-hmm

1366
00:55:34,160 --> 00:55:31,780
back to the document who do you think

1367
00:55:37,010 --> 00:55:34,170
would I mean someone obviously spent

1368
00:55:39,420 --> 00:55:37,020
hours and hours and hours of time

1369
00:55:42,090 --> 00:55:39,430
putting this together do you think it

1370
00:55:44,610 --> 00:55:42,100
had any type of link with the original

1371
00:55:46,490 --> 00:55:44,620
you know mj-12 documents or do you think

1372
00:55:50,130 --> 00:55:46,500
this is someone that did this recently

1373
00:55:52,110 --> 00:55:50,140
on their own I think there's somebody

1374
00:55:53,340 --> 00:55:52,120
did it recently on their own it's not

1375
00:55:54,570 --> 00:55:53,350
disinformation and there's another

1376
00:55:57,060 --> 00:55:54,580
interesting thing when I was talking to

1377
00:55:58,140 --> 00:55:57,070
Steve Bassett about it beginning if the

1378
00:55:59,190 --> 00:55:58,150
first time he said well you know there's

1379
00:56:00,780 --> 00:55:59,200
three or four different things it's

1380
00:56:02,550 --> 00:56:00,790
disinformation it's somebody put it

1381
00:56:06,540 --> 00:56:02,560
together themselves or something like

1382
00:56:09,900 --> 00:56:06,550
that when we talked when Newman he and I

1383
00:56:12,240 --> 00:56:09,910
talked on Saturday he was of the opinion

1384
00:56:14,700 --> 00:56:12,250
it was not disinformation it was just

1385
00:56:16,560 --> 00:56:14,710
somebody had put it together I agree

1386
00:56:17,730 --> 00:56:16,570
with that I had come to that assessment

1387
00:56:20,240 --> 00:56:17,740
as well that somebody just put it

1388
00:56:25,110 --> 00:56:20,250
together it's a recent recent document

1389
00:56:27,300 --> 00:56:25,120
put together for the the amusement of

1390
00:56:31,260 --> 00:56:27,310
whoever did it I don't know if he or she

1391
00:56:33,450 --> 00:56:31,270
thought they could float this into the

1392
00:56:35,700 --> 00:56:33,460
UFO community and then a week or two

1393
00:56:37,770 --> 00:56:35,710
later say ha ha gotcha you dumbasses you

1394
00:56:40,140 --> 00:56:37,780
you couldn't tell the fakes from the

1395
00:56:44,250 --> 00:56:40,150
real and the consensus seems to be it's

1396
00:56:45,690 --> 00:56:44,260
faked or somebody somebody looking to

1397
00:56:47,990 --> 00:56:45,700
kind of promote the seventh anniversary

1398
00:56:51,570 --> 00:56:48,000
of the Roswell case by throwing this out

1399
00:56:54,060 --> 00:56:51,580
but I think it came from the civilian

1400
00:56:56,910 --> 00:56:54,070
world if you will it's somebody put it

1401
00:56:59,820 --> 00:56:56,920
together had a limited knowledge of you

1402
00:57:01,800 --> 00:56:59,830
the UFO materials had a limited

1403
00:57:06,840 --> 00:57:01,810
knowledge of how classifications work

1404
00:57:08,430 --> 00:57:06,850
and had I would bet money on it used as

1405
00:57:11,700 --> 00:57:08,440
a template for some of this information

1406
00:57:14,190 --> 00:57:11,710
UFO crash at Aztec yes by William

1407
00:57:16,860 --> 00:57:14,200
Steinman okay so just to let the

1408
00:57:18,750 --> 00:57:16,870
listener the live listener know in the

1409
00:57:20,520 --> 00:57:18,760
chat room I have not forgotten you and I

1410
00:57:23,490 --> 00:57:20,530
will get to your questions and feel free

1411
00:57:25,080 --> 00:57:23,500
to keep posting them on there so this

1412
00:57:26,790 --> 00:57:25,090
document

1413
00:57:30,050 --> 00:57:26,800
I think I wrote you in an email the

1414
00:57:32,430 --> 00:57:30,060
other day that when it comes to the

1415
00:57:35,190 --> 00:57:32,440
conversation the interview with the EBA

1416
00:57:39,090 --> 00:57:35,200
tbe that supposedly survived from the

1417
00:57:41,550 --> 00:57:39,100
Aztec crush it did the lingo

1418
00:57:44,400 --> 00:57:41,560
you mentioned the English that was used

1419
00:57:47,700 --> 00:57:44,410
in all that and yes I agree also the

1420
00:57:52,350 --> 00:57:47,710
content of what the EBE was supposedly

1421
00:57:55,380 --> 00:57:52,360
saying it just didn't make sense to me

1422
00:57:58,620 --> 00:57:55,390
that that's how and I don't even know

1423
00:58:00,380 --> 00:57:58,630
how an extraterrestrial would talk you

1424
00:58:03,300 --> 00:58:00,390
know would they come down to our level

1425
00:58:05,310 --> 00:58:03,310
to try to speak to us in a way that we'd

1426
00:58:08,220 --> 00:58:05,320
understand and all that so I have no

1427
00:58:10,440 --> 00:58:08,230
idea but do you think there was any

1428
00:58:12,630 --> 00:58:10,450
creativity and that part at all or do

1429
00:58:14,880 --> 00:58:12,640
you think it was just kind of like how I

1430
00:58:16,310 --> 00:58:14,890
feel I just feel like it you know an ET

1431
00:58:19,050 --> 00:58:16,320
wouldn't say those type of things

1432
00:58:21,480 --> 00:58:19,060
well apropos of nothing at all I noticed

1433
00:58:24,480 --> 00:58:21,490
a Klaatu talked to talked to us pretty

1434
00:58:26,400 --> 00:58:24,490
much as an intelligent individual yes

1435
00:58:27,540 --> 00:58:26,410
Klaatu was the was the Michael Rennie

1436
00:58:30,410 --> 00:58:27,550
character in the day of the Earth Stood

1437
00:58:36,690 --> 00:58:32,760
Klaatu Barada nikto for all of you

1438
00:58:38,010 --> 00:58:36,700
people out there um no it was just it

1439
00:58:44,760 --> 00:58:38,020
was it was just stupid

1440
00:58:47,610 --> 00:58:44,770
uh I don't unders

1441
00:58:50,370 --> 00:58:47,620
talking to this alien creature however

1442
00:58:51,890 --> 00:58:50,380
they're communicating it and they're not

1443
00:58:54,900 --> 00:58:51,900
saying well where's your homeworld

1444
00:58:55,860 --> 00:58:54,910
mm-hmm what what star do you come from

1445
00:58:58,380 --> 00:58:55,870
now we're saying well we came here

1446
00:59:00,420 --> 00:58:58,390
because we like the trees yeah and I'm

1447
00:59:03,120 --> 00:59:00,430
up for trees I mean trees are cool I

1448
00:59:04,740 --> 00:59:03,130
like trees I'm not sure I'm going to be

1449
00:59:06,900 --> 00:59:04,750
flying to other planets and other

1450
00:59:10,920 --> 00:59:06,910
Stellar's a solar system to see their

1451
00:59:12,990 --> 00:59:10,930
trees and this they're really exotic but

1452
00:59:15,450 --> 00:59:13,000
I mean no it's just it just didn't make

1453
00:59:18,540 --> 00:59:15,460
any sense at all uh it says children

1454
00:59:19,710 --> 00:59:18,550
part of it too right but we always must

1455
00:59:23,610 --> 00:59:19,720
think of the children

1456
00:59:24,660 --> 00:59:23,620
yeah I remember the Simpson said it's

1457
00:59:26,280 --> 00:59:24,670
the episode where they're doing that

1458
00:59:27,450 --> 00:59:26,290
know what about the children and the guy

1459
00:59:29,520 --> 00:59:27,460
jumps out the window because the

1460
00:59:33,450 --> 00:59:29,530
children are going to be somehow hurt

1461
00:59:34,110 --> 00:59:33,460
and I mean it's just it it doesn't make

1462
00:59:37,200 --> 00:59:34,120
any sense

1463
00:59:39,660 --> 00:59:37,210
it's just absolutely ludicrous

1464
00:59:41,400 --> 00:59:39,670
it's sort of put together as a stream of

1465
00:59:43,349 --> 00:59:41,410
consciousness as opposed to something

1466
00:59:46,410 --> 00:59:43,359
with a lot of thought put into it you

1467
00:59:49,559 --> 00:59:46,420
know if I'm if I'm interviewing an alien

1468
00:59:51,359 --> 00:59:49,569
creature I'm wanting to know where

1469
00:59:53,640 --> 00:59:51,369
they're coming from I'm wanting to know

1470
00:59:56,130 --> 00:59:53,650
their mission I'm wanting to know how

1471
00:59:58,289 --> 00:59:56,140
they defeat the distances the

1472
01:00:01,559 --> 00:59:58,299
interstellar distances I'm wanting to

1473
01:00:04,079 --> 01:00:01,569
know what source of energy they use all

1474
01:00:07,440 --> 01:00:04,089
of these things are very difficult to

1475
01:00:09,390 --> 01:00:07,450
invent to make up for this although I

1476
01:00:11,760 --> 01:00:09,400
think I'd say they came from the Tao CD

1477
01:00:14,359 --> 01:00:11,770
system but I don't know why it's a kind

1478
01:00:18,269 --> 01:00:14,369
of a cool star Oh Alda bar and it's cool

1479
01:00:22,859 --> 01:00:18,279
anyway you know something like that but

1480
01:00:26,760 --> 01:00:22,869
it's just just stuff that's really easy

1481
01:00:28,049 --> 01:00:26,770
to to to make up it doesn't take any

1482
01:00:30,900 --> 01:00:28,059
thought I guess is what I'm trying to

1483
01:00:33,109 --> 01:00:30,910
say so the interview the interview was

1484
01:00:35,640 --> 01:00:33,119
if if I had been creating the document

1485
01:00:39,510 --> 01:00:35,650
and I'd run it by a pally to probably

1486
01:00:42,359 --> 01:00:39,520
say lose the interview because that

1487
01:00:47,220 --> 01:00:42,369
really sends up a red red flare let's

1488
01:00:48,539 --> 01:00:47,230
say a red flare on a hot air balloon a

1489
01:00:51,599 --> 01:00:48,549
red flare on a weather balloon for

1490
01:00:54,029 --> 01:00:51,609
people to see now the it's just

1491
01:00:56,569 --> 01:00:54,039
absolutely ludicrous did you watch the

1492
01:01:00,960 --> 01:00:56,579
movie arrival that came out last year I

1493
01:01:03,329 --> 01:01:00,970
did and I know they asked the questions

1494
01:01:06,450 --> 01:01:03,339
that you would want to ask I think and

1495
01:01:08,910 --> 01:01:06,460
I'm surprised and kind of use that as a

1496
01:01:10,529 --> 01:01:08,920
little bit of a template I think the

1497
01:01:13,440 --> 01:01:10,539
person that did this wasn't smart enough

1498
01:01:15,390 --> 01:01:13,450
to go see that movie because it took a

1499
01:01:16,829 --> 01:01:15,400
little bit of a cerebral activity to sit

1500
01:01:18,900 --> 01:01:16,839
there and understand what was going on

1501
01:01:21,210 --> 01:01:18,910
because there were no explosions these

1502
01:01:23,370 --> 01:01:21,220
were blowing up things were falling out

1503
01:01:25,710 --> 01:01:23,380
of the sky and that sort of thing it was

1504
01:01:27,750 --> 01:01:25,720
a very cerebral activity going on there

1505
01:01:29,819 --> 01:01:27,760
as opposed to Independence Day

1506
01:01:33,720 --> 01:01:29,829
resurgence which makes no sense at all

1507
01:01:35,430 --> 01:01:33,730
but let's blow some stuff up yes I

1508
01:01:38,099 --> 01:01:35,440
couldn't get through that I was

1509
01:01:40,589 --> 01:01:38,109
surprised I just tried to watch that it

1510
01:01:43,559 --> 01:01:40,599
was already yeah it was just absolutely

1511
01:01:45,210 --> 01:01:43,569
horrid yeah it was a disco I liked it I

1512
01:01:47,579 --> 01:01:45,220
liked Independence Day I mean that was

1513
01:01:49,620 --> 01:01:47,589
okay but yeah but they blew a lot of

1514
01:01:50,579 --> 01:01:49,630
stuff up on that and and there were

1515
01:01:53,219 --> 01:01:50,589
things that didn't make an

1516
01:01:55,950 --> 01:01:53,229
sense militarily speaking my favorite

1517
01:01:58,680 --> 01:01:55,960
light in Independence Day was this is a

1518
01:02:01,079 --> 01:01:58,690
glass bulletproof is the weapon you know

1519
01:02:03,089 --> 01:02:01,089
with aliens is this glass bulletproof

1520
01:02:05,069 --> 01:02:03,099
they're standing down there and and

1521
01:02:07,200 --> 01:02:05,079
brent Spiner is being choked by the

1522
01:02:10,109 --> 01:02:07,210
alien and the president's having trouble

1523
01:02:11,729 --> 01:02:10,119
with with it going on and the one guy

1524
01:02:12,930 --> 01:02:11,739
says is this glass bulletproof and they

1525
01:02:14,880 --> 01:02:12,940
say no and they all haul out their

1526
01:02:17,370 --> 01:02:14,890
weapons and start shooting which by the

1527
01:02:18,690 --> 01:02:17,380
way would never happen because here's a

1528
01:02:22,829 --> 01:02:18,700
little tidbit for you when we were in

1529
01:02:24,269 --> 01:02:22,839
Iraq the they had they built a big fancy

1530
01:02:26,819 --> 01:02:24,279
dining facility because they don't have

1531
01:02:29,039 --> 01:02:26,829
mess halls anymore big fancy dining

1532
01:02:31,079 --> 01:02:29,049
facility and we would go there for lunch

1533
01:02:33,690 --> 01:02:31,089
or something but we were told on one day

1534
01:02:35,069 --> 01:02:33,700
we couldn't bring our weapons normally

1535
01:02:36,450 --> 01:02:35,079
we went everywhere with our weapons but

1536
01:02:39,029 --> 01:02:36,460
on one day we couldn't bring our weapons

1537
01:02:40,950 --> 01:02:39,039
and the reason was President Bush had

1538
01:02:43,319 --> 01:02:40,960
showed up to serve turkey to thee to the

1539
01:02:47,180 --> 01:02:43,329
Troops and they didn't want to hurt in

1540
01:02:50,069 --> 01:02:47,190
what you know 2,000 armed people

1541
01:02:52,259 --> 01:02:50,079
marching through the dining facility we

1542
01:02:53,969 --> 01:02:52,269
were all armed and we all had ammunition

1543
01:02:55,140 --> 01:02:53,979
and they were told to leave their

1544
01:02:56,609 --> 01:02:55,150
weapons home which was a key that

1545
01:02:57,660 --> 01:02:56,619
something was something interesting was

1546
01:03:00,959 --> 01:02:57,670
going on because we would have

1547
01:03:02,999 --> 01:03:00,969
overwhelmed the Secret Service if we had

1548
01:03:04,739 --> 01:03:03,009
decided to do that which is not

1549
01:03:07,529 --> 01:03:04,749
advocating anything I'm just merely

1550
01:03:10,849 --> 01:03:07,539
commenting on why they didn't want us to

1551
01:03:13,950 --> 01:03:10,859
bring our weapons but we knew we knew

1552
01:03:15,569 --> 01:03:13,960
something unusual was going on but so

1553
01:03:18,660 --> 01:03:15,579
when you get the point is when you get

1554
01:03:20,400 --> 01:03:18,670
the president people are disarmed they

1555
01:03:23,430 --> 01:03:20,410
don't run around with all their weapons

1556
01:03:26,430 --> 01:03:23,440
even in a combat environment which we

1557
01:03:27,120 --> 01:03:26,440
were in Wow well that's I never would

1558
01:03:29,549 --> 01:03:27,130
have thought of that

1559
01:03:32,009 --> 01:03:29,559
um someone posted a question on the

1560
01:03:36,479 --> 01:03:32,019
forum so let me just throw this one at

1561
01:03:38,910 --> 01:03:36,489
you some have this I was by let's see

1562
01:03:43,349 --> 01:03:38,920
who brought this in bill bill wrote this

1563
01:03:45,239 --> 01:03:43,359
and oh it's a long question it's a

1564
01:03:47,279 --> 01:03:45,249
two-part question so hang in there this

1565
01:03:50,400 --> 01:03:47,289
may take oh my god two parts just may

1566
01:03:52,829 --> 01:03:50,410
take the rest of the show some have

1567
01:03:55,200 --> 01:03:52,839
claimed that the government engages in a

1568
01:03:56,910 --> 01:03:55,210
form of soft disclosure or an

1569
01:03:59,430 --> 01:03:56,920
inclination program where the

1570
01:04:01,739 --> 01:03:59,440
entertainment industry is used to

1571
01:04:04,529 --> 01:04:01,749
prepare the public the truth about the

1572
01:04:06,569 --> 01:04:04,539
UFO phenomena various sci-fi movie

1573
01:04:09,390 --> 01:04:06,579
and TV programs have been cited as

1574
01:04:11,519 --> 01:04:09,400
examples in some appointed to specific

1575
01:04:13,799 --> 01:04:11,529
individuals influencing the show content

1576
01:04:15,989 --> 01:04:13,809
with links to the government agencies

1577
01:04:17,909 --> 01:04:15,999
what are your thoughts about that I'll

1578
01:04:20,039 --> 01:04:17,919
get to the other part of this after you

1579
01:04:23,059 --> 01:04:20,049
answer that part Oh

1580
01:04:27,589 --> 01:04:23,069
which movies are the soft disclosure

1581
01:04:30,359 --> 01:04:27,599
Independence Day where they've invaded

1582
01:04:31,890 --> 01:04:30,369
yeah oh yeah yeah you can you can look

1583
01:04:33,900 --> 01:04:31,900
at you can look at the Day the Earth

1584
01:04:38,069 --> 01:04:33,910
Stood Still which that would be soft

1585
01:04:40,709 --> 01:04:38,079
disclosure where Klaatu is able to stop

1586
01:04:42,120 --> 01:04:40,719
the electricity for 30 minutes the

1587
01:04:44,209 --> 01:04:42,130
showing the power that they have and

1588
01:04:46,620 --> 01:04:44,219
even the exceptions were were

1589
01:04:48,449 --> 01:04:46,630
extraordinary according to them to the

1590
01:04:49,890 --> 01:04:48,459
script but on the other hand you look at

1591
01:04:52,229 --> 01:04:49,900
how many invasion movies have there been

1592
01:04:54,089 --> 01:04:52,239
and the independent independence they

1593
01:04:57,539 --> 01:04:54,099
spring to mind immediately where the the

1594
01:05:01,650 --> 01:04:57,549
world is being destroyed by the aliens

1595
01:05:03,120 --> 01:05:01,660
or V where we've got sort of the the

1596
01:05:04,589 --> 01:05:03,130
aliens are here and they're supposedly

1597
01:05:06,949 --> 01:05:04,599
benevolent but we have the resistance

1598
01:05:09,209 --> 01:05:06,959
going on because they're not benevolent

1599
01:05:12,059 --> 01:05:09,219
so you can look at all of that stuff so

1600
01:05:13,409 --> 01:05:12,069
I think it's just the mood of Hollywood

1601
01:05:14,759 --> 01:05:13,419
at the time when they make the movie I

1602
01:05:16,649 --> 01:05:14,769
think there's nothing to it has nothing

1603
01:05:18,539 --> 01:05:16,659
to do with soft disclosure or anything

1604
01:05:21,779 --> 01:05:18,549
else it's just they're putting together

1605
01:05:26,039 --> 01:05:21,789
a story that they find interesting at

1606
01:05:29,489 --> 01:05:26,049
that time for whatever reason III there

1607
01:05:31,890 --> 01:05:29,499
is no motivation for the government to

1608
01:05:34,349 --> 01:05:31,900
disclose anything they have at this

1609
01:05:36,989 --> 01:05:34,359
point disclosure will come when the

1610
01:05:37,259 --> 01:05:36,999
aliens land and make their presence

1611
01:05:40,949 --> 01:05:37,269
known

1612
01:05:42,359 --> 01:05:40,959
that's when disclosure will happen and I

1613
01:05:43,769 --> 01:05:42,369
know Steve Bassett will yell at me for

1614
01:05:48,149 --> 01:05:43,779
this I was just going to ask you about

1615
01:05:51,659 --> 01:05:48,159
that mmm but but that is my feeling that

1616
01:05:56,359 --> 01:05:51,669
there is absolutely no motivation to

1617
01:06:01,199 --> 01:05:56,369
disclose anything at this point so the

1618
01:06:02,759 --> 01:06:01,209
idea that they're they're trying to get

1619
01:06:06,390 --> 01:06:02,769
us used to the idea

1620
01:06:10,859 --> 01:06:06,400
alien visitation through these programs

1621
01:06:13,140 --> 01:06:10,869
I just don't buy buy into like I said

1622
01:06:14,669 --> 01:06:13,150
pretty well covers it yes it actually

1623
01:06:17,580 --> 01:06:14,679
covers the second part of the question

1624
01:06:20,190 --> 01:06:17,590
too because of he was asking you know

1625
01:06:24,290 --> 01:06:20,200
you think these fake briefing documents

1626
01:06:28,260 --> 01:06:24,300
that mix fact with fiction and

1627
01:06:30,480 --> 01:06:28,270
disagreement disinformation per se was a

1628
01:06:32,340 --> 01:06:30,490
type of soft disclosure but I think you

1629
01:06:33,750 --> 01:06:32,350
just basically covered that and I agree

1630
01:06:35,790 --> 01:06:33,760
with you I don't think there's any

1631
01:06:38,790 --> 01:06:35,800
motivation and they would have way too

1632
01:06:41,520 --> 01:06:38,800
much explaining to do if if they came

1633
01:06:43,740 --> 01:06:41,530
forward and actually said something was

1634
01:06:46,020 --> 01:06:43,750
going on and unless I got it from

1635
01:06:49,320 --> 01:06:46,030
another point of view I mean we have in

1636
01:06:51,030 --> 01:06:49,330
the last 50 years or so we have we have

1637
01:06:53,280 --> 01:06:51,040
learned that the u.s. government has

1638
01:06:55,920 --> 01:06:53,290
participated in some really disgusting

1639
01:06:58,620 --> 01:06:55,930
things I think of this what was it the

1640
01:07:02,100 --> 01:06:58,630
Tuskegee syphilis experiment where they

1641
01:07:04,680 --> 01:07:02,110
either injected the black man with

1642
01:07:06,450 --> 01:07:04,690
syphilis or they okay the black man came

1643
01:07:08,070 --> 01:07:06,460
for treatment for syphilis and they were

1644
01:07:09,300 --> 01:07:08,080
not treated so they could map the course

1645
01:07:11,070 --> 01:07:09,310
of the disease they can see how it

1646
01:07:12,960 --> 01:07:11,080
progressed over the years that's a

1647
01:07:14,460 --> 01:07:12,970
disgusting thing to have done

1648
01:07:20,130 --> 01:07:14,470
there was another experiment where they

1649
01:07:25,440 --> 01:07:20,140
were exposing children and adults who

1650
01:07:27,390 --> 01:07:25,450
were either either very ill or had grave

1651
01:07:29,010 --> 01:07:27,400
diseases that couldn't be cured or

1652
01:07:30,600 --> 01:07:29,020
things like that to radiation so they

1653
01:07:32,910 --> 01:07:30,610
can see whether the the progress of

1654
01:07:34,860 --> 01:07:32,920
radiation sickness and and how to combat

1655
01:07:37,260 --> 01:07:34,870
that I mean those are disgusting things

1656
01:07:39,750 --> 01:07:37,270
yes and you know as American citizen we

1657
01:07:42,450 --> 01:07:39,760
should be horrified that this was even

1658
01:07:46,820 --> 01:07:42,460
thought to be legitimate areas of

1659
01:07:49,140 --> 01:07:46,830
research so I cannot think of anything

1660
01:07:51,570 --> 01:07:49,150
that they would have learned from a

1661
01:07:53,310 --> 01:07:51,580
crashed UFO that they wouldn't wouldn't

1662
01:07:57,870 --> 01:07:53,320
have felt comfortable disclosing by this

1663
01:08:00,270 --> 01:07:57,880
point so that kind of you know you look

1664
01:08:01,620 --> 01:08:00,280
at that you think well you know they if

1665
01:08:03,030 --> 01:08:01,630
they're not going to disclose it there's

1666
01:08:04,920 --> 01:08:03,040
not going to be a hint about it this

1667
01:08:06,240 --> 01:08:04,930
just is not going to be the

1668
01:08:08,010 --> 01:08:06,250
documentation there's not going to be

1669
01:08:10,830 --> 01:08:08,020
any place to go with it so this idea

1670
01:08:13,650 --> 01:08:10,840
that there would be disclosure I think

1671
01:08:16,500 --> 01:08:13,660
the closest we ever came was in the mid

1672
01:08:18,930 --> 01:08:16,510
1990s when when Stan was doing his book

1673
01:08:20,460 --> 01:08:18,940
on Roswell and I was working with Don

1674
01:08:21,720 --> 01:08:20,470
Schmidt on our books in Roswell and

1675
01:08:23,760 --> 01:08:21,730
there's a lot of discussion about that

1676
01:08:25,590 --> 01:08:23,770
and we're coming up on the fiftieth

1677
01:08:29,820 --> 01:08:25,600
anniversary and the Air Force got in and

1678
01:08:31,140 --> 01:08:29,830
did their investigation of of the

1679
01:08:32,640 --> 01:08:31,150
Roswell case

1680
01:08:34,110 --> 01:08:32,650
that was the closest we ever came but I

1681
01:08:36,209 --> 01:08:34,120
think we have them worried at that point

1682
01:08:37,709 --> 01:08:36,219
that something was going to leak and

1683
01:08:40,499 --> 01:08:37,719
they were able to shut it down with

1684
01:08:42,360 --> 01:08:40,509
their nonsensical project mogul was not

1685
01:08:45,599 --> 01:08:42,370
was there a senator or someone involved

1686
01:08:47,490 --> 01:08:45,609
in that pardon me for interrupting uh I

1687
01:08:50,010 --> 01:08:47,500
think was a congressman Stephen chef

1688
01:08:52,620 --> 01:08:50,020
from okay right from from from from New

1689
01:08:54,390 --> 01:08:52,630
Mexico who just queried the air force

1690
01:08:55,499 --> 01:08:54,400
but do you go back and they've been

1691
01:08:58,530 --> 01:08:55,509
other queries to the air force

1692
01:09:00,840 --> 01:08:58,540
especially about project moon dust and I

1693
01:09:02,789 --> 01:09:00,850
know that jeff Bingaman who was a

1694
01:09:05,999 --> 01:09:02,799
senator from New Mexico we queried the

1695
01:09:08,039 --> 01:09:06,009
Air Force about project mogul test and

1696
01:09:09,689 --> 01:09:08,049
he got a response from the Air Force the

1697
01:09:11,059 --> 01:09:09,699
congressional liaison office saying

1698
01:09:13,340 --> 01:09:11,069
there's no such project as moon dust

1699
01:09:16,079 --> 01:09:13,350
when the documents that had been

1700
01:09:18,720 --> 01:09:16,089
inadvertently leaked into the public I

1701
01:09:20,519 --> 01:09:18,730
think Robert Todd got them originally in

1702
01:09:22,200 --> 01:09:20,529
one of his FOIA requests to the State

1703
01:09:24,950 --> 01:09:22,210
Department found the project moon dust

1704
01:09:27,510 --> 01:09:24,960
documents in there and the cliff stone

1705
01:09:30,930 --> 01:09:27,520
voided and got some documents and then I

1706
01:09:32,280 --> 01:09:30,940
fired and got some documents but we we

1707
01:09:33,870 --> 01:09:32,290
had all these documents from the State

1708
01:09:35,160 --> 01:09:33,880
Department from from a provenance you

1709
01:09:38,399 --> 01:09:35,170
could say the State Department sent us

1710
01:09:40,769 --> 01:09:38,409
this stuff referencing project moon dust

1711
01:09:42,390 --> 01:09:40,779
I later found four cases in front of the

1712
01:09:44,519 --> 01:09:42,400
project blue book files labeled Project

1713
01:09:45,930 --> 01:09:44,529
moon de sel clearly it existed anyhow

1714
01:09:47,700 --> 01:09:45,940
the documents were sent to the Air Force

1715
01:09:49,110 --> 01:09:47,710
and the Air Force that we'd like to

1716
01:09:50,880 --> 01:09:49,120
amend our last statement there was a

1717
01:09:53,039 --> 01:09:50,890
project moon dust we just never used it

1718
01:09:55,260 --> 01:09:53,049
well that was that wasn't that was

1719
01:09:59,160 --> 01:09:55,270
another lie too because we had instances

1720
01:10:00,570 --> 01:09:59,170
where it had been deployed so you know

1721
01:10:01,709 --> 01:10:00,580
even when you get close to something you

1722
01:10:03,330 --> 01:10:01,719
have the documents in hand they're going

1723
01:10:05,669 --> 01:10:03,340
to lie to you about it so I think I

1724
01:10:07,560 --> 01:10:05,679
think this disclosure is in the hands of

1725
01:10:08,939 --> 01:10:07,570
the alien creatures if they want to they

1726
01:10:11,850 --> 01:10:08,949
want to disclose themselves are going to

1727
01:10:13,709 --> 01:10:11,860
do it and I don't think of any

1728
01:10:15,600 --> 01:10:13,719
motivation the government has to tell us

1729
01:10:20,250 --> 01:10:15,610
anything that they know all right well

1730
01:10:22,590 --> 01:10:20,260
along these lines what what segments or

1731
01:10:26,280 --> 01:10:22,600
what part of the government do you think

1732
01:10:28,140 --> 01:10:26,290
could possibly be cut you know being

1733
01:10:30,149 --> 01:10:28,150
involved in the cover-up of when

1734
01:10:32,310 --> 01:10:30,159
something like this happens or when you

1735
01:10:34,590 --> 01:10:32,320
hear about a jet you know chasing a UFO

1736
01:10:36,930 --> 01:10:34,600
or something like that you know you know

1737
01:10:39,959 --> 01:10:36,940
they have to be someone knows about it

1738
01:10:41,729 --> 01:10:39,969
and you've been in the military do you

1739
01:10:43,830 --> 01:10:41,739
think that there's like one special

1740
01:10:45,090 --> 01:10:43,840
segment that gets carried on

1741
01:10:48,270 --> 01:10:45,100
generationally some

1742
01:10:50,250 --> 01:10:48,280
how that knows actually that there is

1743
01:10:51,780 --> 01:10:50,260
something going on I don't think they

1744
01:10:55,700 --> 01:10:51,790
know what is going on but something

1745
01:10:58,290 --> 01:10:55,710
going on I that after the Roswell case

1746
01:11:02,220 --> 01:10:58,300
the government kind of changed its tune

1747
01:11:03,930 --> 01:11:02,230
and tried to decipher what exactly they

1748
01:11:07,140 --> 01:11:03,940
had found there and understand it and

1749
01:11:09,510 --> 01:11:07,150
that may have been a large project back

1750
01:11:13,530 --> 01:11:09,520
then but as the years passed and they

1751
01:11:15,570 --> 01:11:13,540
were unable to manipulate the data

1752
01:11:18,030 --> 01:11:15,580
they're unable to understand what was

1753
01:11:20,220 --> 01:11:18,040
going on the number of people involved

1754
01:11:22,590 --> 01:11:20,230
continued to shrink until it's a very

1755
01:11:24,750 --> 01:11:22,600
very minuta number and I think it's one

1756
01:11:28,020 --> 01:11:24,760
of these things you you will look at J

1757
01:11:32,370 --> 01:11:28,030
Edgar Hoover he was he was the the

1758
01:11:33,840 --> 01:11:32,380
director of the FBI for decades and I

1759
01:11:36,030 --> 01:11:33,850
think it's that sort of thing you've got

1760
01:11:37,710 --> 01:11:36,040
a small department there of a number of

1761
01:11:41,580 --> 01:11:37,720
people and the people in it are very

1762
01:11:46,800 --> 01:11:41,590
select and they have access to a lot of

1763
01:11:47,880 --> 01:11:46,810
the good stuff and that they are holding

1764
01:11:49,620 --> 01:11:47,890
on it so when something like that

1765
01:11:52,350 --> 01:11:49,630
happens they can they can manipulate

1766
01:11:56,100 --> 01:11:52,360
things and it's compartmentalized as

1767
01:11:57,300 --> 01:11:56,110
well so that there are very few people

1768
01:11:59,100 --> 01:11:57,310
that know the whole picture but there

1769
01:12:00,480 --> 01:11:59,110
may be a few some people who know part

1770
01:12:03,690 --> 01:12:00,490
of the picture a very small part of the

1771
01:12:06,870 --> 01:12:03,700
picture and so it all kind of works that

1772
01:12:08,670 --> 01:12:06,880
way so what do you think about this

1773
01:12:12,570 --> 01:12:08,680
particular let's say there is a

1774
01:12:13,920 --> 01:12:12,580
compartmentalized section that has this

1775
01:12:17,280 --> 01:12:13,930
information do you think there's

1776
01:12:20,100 --> 01:12:17,290
communications with other similar I

1777
01:12:22,290 --> 01:12:20,110
don't want to say organizations but

1778
01:12:24,620 --> 01:12:22,300
groups in different countries or do you

1779
01:12:27,750 --> 01:12:24,630
think this is kept country per country I

1780
01:12:28,980 --> 01:12:27,760
would think that and here I'm going to

1781
01:12:32,610 --> 01:12:28,990
sound awful

1782
01:12:35,070 --> 01:12:32,620
American centric I think we made the

1783
01:12:37,380 --> 01:12:35,080
United States government has has the

1784
01:12:40,110 --> 01:12:37,390
answers and other other governments may

1785
01:12:45,510 --> 01:12:40,120
be suspect but don't have the answers

1786
01:12:47,310 --> 01:12:45,520
what I did the UFO dossier I I just love

1787
01:12:51,450 --> 01:12:47,320
the way you lead me into being able to

1788
01:12:54,510 --> 01:12:51,460
promote books um I was looking at the

1789
01:12:57,930 --> 01:12:54,520
Australian Government's UFO research

1790
01:12:58,890 --> 01:12:57,940
which was very interesting and there was

1791
01:13:02,130 --> 01:12:58,900
one one

1792
01:13:03,930 --> 01:13:02,140
fellow who was advocating Australian

1793
01:13:06,419 --> 01:13:03,940
government UFO project and that sort of

1794
01:13:09,360 --> 01:13:06,429
thing and so they asked the Australian

1795
01:13:10,830 --> 01:13:09,370
Air Force about it and I think that one

1796
01:13:12,660 --> 01:13:10,840
of the sources he said it was one of Don

1797
01:13:14,610 --> 01:13:12,670
Quixote and still they asked you

1798
01:13:17,220 --> 01:13:14,620
Australian Air Force about it who asked

1799
01:13:18,360 --> 01:13:17,230
the US Air Force about it and the US Air

1800
01:13:20,880 --> 01:13:18,370
Force says you can't believe anything

1801
01:13:22,350 --> 01:13:20,890
Don Quixote is he's you know he just

1802
01:13:25,350 --> 01:13:22,360
he's just a liar out there trying to

1803
01:13:26,640 --> 01:13:25,360
make a buck and so the the I went back

1804
01:13:27,780 --> 01:13:26,650
to the Australian I there's nothing for

1805
01:13:29,610 --> 01:13:27,790
us to really look at we don't need to

1806
01:13:31,770 --> 01:13:29,620
waste the money and spend the time so

1807
01:13:34,439 --> 01:13:31,780
the US government the US Air Force was

1808
01:13:37,080 --> 01:13:34,449
kind of manipulating the situation

1809
01:13:39,450 --> 01:13:37,090
because we find out that Kehoe was right

1810
01:13:41,399 --> 01:13:39,460
more often than he was he was wrong but

1811
01:13:42,720 --> 01:13:41,409
the point really is the Australian Air

1812
01:13:44,160 --> 01:13:42,730
Force went to their colleagues in the

1813
01:13:46,380 --> 01:13:44,170
American Air Force the American Air

1814
01:13:47,640 --> 01:13:46,390
Force guy said Nast not into it and I

1815
01:13:50,580 --> 01:13:47,650
think think there's another another

1816
01:13:52,200 --> 01:13:50,590
point here to that that the guys there

1817
01:13:55,080 --> 01:13:52,210
may be some guys at the very top who

1818
01:13:58,140 --> 01:13:55,090
know about it but if I do not believe

1819
01:13:59,790 --> 01:13:58,150
there's anything to UFOs and I'm some

1820
01:14:01,410 --> 01:13:59,800
kernel or Brigadier General sitting in

1821
01:14:03,000 --> 01:14:01,420
the Pentagon and my colleague from

1822
01:14:04,200 --> 01:14:03,010
Australia calls me so what do you think

1823
01:14:06,300 --> 01:14:04,210
about this stuff and especially this

1824
01:14:07,800 --> 01:14:06,310
keyhole guy and I say I don't think much

1825
01:14:10,950 --> 01:14:07,810
about him I think it's kind of a creep

1826
01:14:12,570 --> 01:14:10,960
and let it go at that I haven't lied to

1827
01:14:14,610 --> 01:14:12,580
them I haven't misdirected I'm telling

1828
01:14:16,860 --> 01:14:14,620
them what I know I just don't have a

1829
01:14:20,189 --> 01:14:16,870
clear picture and so there's always that

1830
01:14:21,899 --> 01:14:20,199
art if I tell you a lie and you believe

1831
01:14:23,669 --> 01:14:21,909
it and you repeat that lie

1832
01:14:26,729 --> 01:14:23,679
you're not lying you're telling what you

1833
01:14:28,979 --> 01:14:26,739
believe to be the truth is the initial

1834
01:14:31,979 --> 01:14:28,989
information was inaccurate so we've got

1835
01:14:34,770 --> 01:14:31,989
to look at all that I believe that if

1836
01:14:38,280 --> 01:14:34,780
there was a crash at Roswell and there

1837
01:14:40,410 --> 01:14:38,290
was a organization created to

1838
01:14:43,590 --> 01:14:40,420
investigate it that organization is

1839
01:14:45,600 --> 01:14:43,600
still alive today and the mantle of

1840
01:14:48,090 --> 01:14:45,610
secrecy's kind of passed down from

1841
01:14:49,620 --> 01:14:48,100
generation to generation that way and I

1842
01:14:52,260 --> 01:14:49,630
think the number of people involved in

1843
01:14:53,880 --> 01:14:52,270
the very core of this organization the

1844
01:14:56,310 --> 01:14:53,890
ones that who know all the really good

1845
01:14:59,850 --> 01:14:56,320
stuff is a very finite number a very

1846
01:15:03,260 --> 01:14:59,860
small number of people who are working

1847
01:15:05,820 --> 01:15:03,270
actively to to keep the information

1848
01:15:08,370 --> 01:15:05,830
hidden but the other side of the coin is

1849
01:15:09,959 --> 01:15:08,380
we're doing it to ourselves we just had

1850
01:15:12,070 --> 01:15:09,969
another fine example of the EM this

1851
01:15:14,290 --> 01:15:12,080
mj-12 document

1852
01:15:15,940 --> 01:15:14,300
it got a you said it went viral in the

1853
01:15:18,100 --> 01:15:15,950
UFO community I think it may have gone

1854
01:15:20,590 --> 01:15:18,110
got a little bit more viral into a

1855
01:15:21,910 --> 01:15:20,600
larger audience but in the end it's

1856
01:15:24,520 --> 01:15:21,920
gonna say well just another hoax from

1857
01:15:26,100 --> 01:15:24,530
the y'all OMG 12 stuff that's all crap

1858
01:15:28,990 --> 01:15:26,110
you know just like this whole UFO thing

1859
01:15:31,450 --> 01:15:29,000
and if I'm if I'm one of the operatives

1860
01:15:32,980 --> 01:15:31,460
Isis yeah I I created that document look

1861
01:15:34,600 --> 01:15:32,990
at what it what it's done for us even

1862
01:15:36,730 --> 01:15:34,610
though it hasn't done up just take

1863
01:15:38,610 --> 01:15:36,740
credit for it because it completes our

1864
01:15:40,510 --> 01:15:38,620
mission we're doing it to ourselves

1865
01:15:43,600 --> 01:15:40,520
especially when we keep advocating

1866
01:15:45,520 --> 01:15:43,610
things that we may know in our heart of

1867
01:15:46,990 --> 01:15:45,530
hearts aren't true you know it's when I

1868
01:15:49,660 --> 01:15:47,000
think I say might want to hold the door

1869
01:15:52,690 --> 01:15:49,670
against all of this stuff I want to keep

1870
01:15:55,210 --> 01:15:52,700
the truth out there I want to keep going

1871
01:15:59,380 --> 01:15:55,220
for the truth and not having to embrace

1872
01:16:01,900 --> 01:15:59,390
the indefensible to to get my voice

1873
01:16:04,240 --> 01:16:01,910
heard and so I take I take a lot of

1874
01:16:05,650 --> 01:16:04,250
flack for that when I people will say to

1875
01:16:07,720 --> 01:16:05,660
but what do you think about such and

1876
01:16:09,970 --> 01:16:07,730
such occasion if I gave my opinion then

1877
01:16:12,730 --> 01:16:09,980
they get mad at me even though the facts

1878
01:16:14,020 --> 01:16:12,740
are on my side they get mad at me

1879
01:16:16,270 --> 01:16:14,030
because what they want me to do is

1880
01:16:18,610 --> 01:16:16,280
validate their personal belief structure

1881
01:16:20,410 --> 01:16:18,620
and I'm not going to do that there are a

1882
01:16:24,690 --> 01:16:20,420
lot of people out there who will do that

1883
01:16:27,580 --> 01:16:24,700
who embrace everything to keep the

1884
01:16:30,460 --> 01:16:27,590
invitations coming to the conference's

1885
01:16:31,660 --> 01:16:30,470
and that sort of thing yeah so you've

1886
01:16:33,640 --> 01:16:31,670
got to take a look at all of that

1887
01:16:35,890 --> 01:16:33,650
information and you've got to sit there

1888
01:16:39,340 --> 01:16:35,900
and look at it very dispassionately and

1889
01:16:43,510 --> 01:16:39,350
by that I mean you look at it coldly

1890
01:16:45,130 --> 01:16:43,520
you'll assume it's untrue and look at it

1891
01:16:47,980 --> 01:16:45,140
from that point of view and see what we

1892
01:16:49,860 --> 01:16:47,990
can do to reverse that opinion I hate to

1893
01:16:52,270 --> 01:16:49,870
say it but it's it's kind of like my

1894
01:16:54,940 --> 01:16:52,280
being in the art business that I'm an

1895
01:16:57,790 --> 01:16:54,950
I'm an appraiser and I say that I always

1896
01:16:59,290 --> 01:16:57,800
say that are really nice painting by a

1897
01:17:00,580 --> 01:16:59,300
really good artist is guilty until

1898
01:17:02,470 --> 01:17:00,590
proven innocent

1899
01:17:05,740 --> 01:17:02,480
you know because I have to prove that's

1900
01:17:07,870 --> 01:17:05,750
the authorship of that artist you know

1901
01:17:09,880 --> 01:17:07,880
so it's kind of along that same white

1902
01:17:15,010 --> 01:17:09,890
way you just have to look at it very

1903
01:17:17,230 --> 01:17:15,020
logically and very carefully now Chris I

1904
01:17:21,220 --> 01:17:17,240
was really very fortunate in one of the

1905
01:17:23,500 --> 01:17:21,230
only few to get he was a government DoD

1906
01:17:24,810 --> 01:17:23,510
insider Chris Mellon from the Mellon

1907
01:17:28,770 --> 01:17:24,820
Bank family he

1908
01:17:31,410 --> 01:17:28,780
on the show months ago well actually

1909
01:17:33,959 --> 01:17:31,420
about a year ago and I asked him the

1910
01:17:36,240 --> 01:17:33,969
question I said if the president wants

1911
01:17:40,020 --> 01:17:36,250
to know everything the government knows

1912
01:17:42,870 --> 01:17:40,030
about UFOs could the president find out

1913
01:17:46,919 --> 01:17:42,880
and he said absolutely absolutely

1914
01:17:48,720 --> 01:17:46,929
now do you think and and I I will I will

1915
01:17:50,160 --> 01:17:48,730
I will have a second that I've always

1916
01:17:53,669 --> 01:17:50,170
said that the president can find out

1917
01:17:57,000 --> 01:17:53,679
whatever the hell he wants yeah but do

1918
01:17:59,430 --> 01:17:57,010
you think that do you think that that

1919
01:18:02,580 --> 01:17:59,440
information could be protected in a type

1920
01:18:04,229 --> 01:18:02,590
of way where the president couldn't find

1921
01:18:07,890 --> 01:18:04,239
out and in other words maybe in the

1922
01:18:09,359 --> 01:18:07,900
private sector somehow or how would they

1923
01:18:11,939 --> 01:18:09,369
protect that information from a

1924
01:18:13,470 --> 01:18:11,949
president I should say first of all the

1925
01:18:16,500 --> 01:18:13,480
president has got to have the motivation

1926
01:18:17,729 --> 01:18:16,510
to ask for it yes and if he has no

1927
01:18:18,530 --> 01:18:17,739
motivation to ask for it they're not

1928
01:18:20,850 --> 01:18:18,540
going to volunteer the information

1929
01:18:24,660 --> 01:18:20,860
there's an awful lot of stuff the

1930
01:18:26,490 --> 01:18:24,670
president has to know to operate day to

1931
01:18:28,890 --> 01:18:26,500
day that has nothing to do with UFOs

1932
01:18:31,319 --> 01:18:28,900
UFOs is pretty esoteric and and sort of

1933
01:18:33,390 --> 01:18:31,329
one of those nice to know things but if

1934
01:18:34,830 --> 01:18:33,400
you're the president you got especially

1935
01:18:37,080 --> 01:18:34,840
in today's environment you've got an

1936
01:18:38,970 --> 01:18:37,090
awful lot on your plate that you've got

1937
01:18:41,100 --> 01:18:38,980
to be dealing with on a day to day basis

1938
01:18:45,000 --> 01:18:41,110
and UFOs just doesn't have a place there

1939
01:18:47,520 --> 01:18:45,010
the second point is you have to ask the

1940
01:18:49,200 --> 01:18:47,530
right person the right question and if

1941
01:18:50,910 --> 01:18:49,210
you go to the wrong person and say well

1942
01:18:52,560 --> 01:18:50,920
what can you tell me about UFOs and the

1943
01:18:55,160 --> 01:18:52,570
guy says I know nothing about it

1944
01:18:58,760 --> 01:18:55,170
we have no files there's nothing there

1945
01:19:01,470 --> 01:18:58,770
you know it's it's all a bunch of hooey

1946
01:19:02,850 --> 01:19:01,480
and that's what the guy knows and that's

1947
01:19:04,620 --> 01:19:02,860
he's telling the president the truth

1948
01:19:06,390 --> 01:19:04,630
there's no there's no there's no where

1949
01:19:08,100 --> 01:19:06,400
else to go you've got to find the right

1950
01:19:10,350 --> 01:19:08,110
person and ask the right questions and

1951
01:19:12,720 --> 01:19:10,360
and sometimes asking the right question

1952
01:19:15,240 --> 01:19:12,730
is important back in the olden days when

1953
01:19:16,740 --> 01:19:15,250
Carl floc was still around he was

1954
01:19:18,600 --> 01:19:16,750
investigating the Roswell case and

1955
01:19:20,430 --> 01:19:18,610
looking in whether or not the Roswell

1956
01:19:22,919 --> 01:19:20,440
fire department had a role in going out

1957
01:19:26,430 --> 01:19:22,929
to the crash site and he talked to a

1958
01:19:28,740 --> 01:19:26,440
fireman in the in the fire department

1959
01:19:30,000 --> 01:19:28,750
and was chatting with him about that the

1960
01:19:31,140 --> 01:19:30,010
guy was saying no we didn't make a run

1961
01:19:33,689 --> 01:19:31,150
out there and we didn't do this we

1962
01:19:35,850 --> 01:19:33,699
didn't do that and Carlock reports that

1963
01:19:37,850 --> 01:19:35,860
in his book roswell inconvenient facts

1964
01:19:39,770 --> 01:19:37,860
in the will to believe i

1965
01:19:41,540 --> 01:19:39,780
talk to the firemen after Carl did and

1966
01:19:43,820 --> 01:19:41,550
he was telling me exactly what he told

1967
01:19:46,220 --> 01:19:43,830
Carl and then I asked him one other

1968
01:19:47,810 --> 01:19:46,230
question I said you know damn Dwyer he

1969
01:19:51,859 --> 01:19:47,820
said oh yeah I know dan dan went out

1970
01:19:53,359 --> 01:19:51,869
there I said what he said oh yeah we had

1971
01:19:54,680 --> 01:19:53,369
this Colonel come by and it's always a

1972
01:19:56,570 --> 01:19:54,690
current let's never captain never a

1973
01:19:58,609 --> 01:19:56,580
major is always a colonel come by the

1974
01:20:00,680 --> 01:19:58,619
fire department and he said yeah we've

1975
01:20:02,149 --> 01:20:00,690
got this covered don't worry about it so

1976
01:20:03,590 --> 01:20:02,159
you don't have to do anything oh but Dan

1977
01:20:04,070 --> 01:20:03,600
got in his private car and went out

1978
01:20:06,800 --> 01:20:04,080
there

1979
01:20:09,260 --> 01:20:06,810
well this suddenly explained all the

1980
01:20:10,609 --> 01:20:09,270
inconsistencies we had because I could

1981
01:20:12,229 --> 01:20:10,619
find nothing in the fire records about a

1982
01:20:13,640 --> 01:20:12,239
run outside of the city limits by the

1983
01:20:16,700 --> 01:20:13,650
fire department well they didn't make

1984
01:20:17,750 --> 01:20:16,710
one but how did Dan Dwyer know about it

1985
01:20:21,530 --> 01:20:17,760
well he went out there in his private

1986
01:20:24,709 --> 01:20:21,540
car and took a look around so uh but but

1987
01:20:26,270 --> 01:20:24,719
Carl hadn't asked the next question if

1988
01:20:28,790 --> 01:20:26,280
I'd said once the guy had told me there

1989
01:20:29,959 --> 01:20:28,800
was nothing to it we didn't go out there

1990
01:20:31,700 --> 01:20:29,969
we didn't make a run out there I don't

1991
01:20:33,919 --> 01:20:31,710
really know anything about it that would

1992
01:20:36,830 --> 01:20:33,929
have been the end of it but I said you

1993
01:20:38,930 --> 01:20:36,840
know Dan Dwyer and his answer kind of

1994
01:20:41,600 --> 01:20:38,940
stunned me when he said oh yeah he went

1995
01:20:44,240 --> 01:20:41,610
out I'm gonna be came they went out as a

1996
01:20:46,100 --> 01:20:44,250
private citizen in this private car Carl

1997
01:20:48,740 --> 01:20:46,110
got the information he wanted and didn't

1998
01:20:50,899 --> 01:20:48,750
ask the next question and I've had that

1999
01:20:53,060 --> 01:20:50,909
happen to me a couple of times or I was

2000
01:20:55,129 --> 01:20:53,070
I was doing research back in the olden

2001
01:20:57,470 --> 01:20:55,139
days I visit morgues of newspapers and

2002
01:20:59,479 --> 01:20:57,480
I'd go back to the 1897 newspapers and

2003
01:21:01,760 --> 01:20:59,489
look for stories about the about the

2004
01:21:03,500 --> 01:21:01,770
airship and I found one in Cedar Rapids

2005
01:21:05,120 --> 01:21:03,510
Iowa about how the thing had landed on

2006
01:21:07,310 --> 01:21:05,130
the Union Station and a number of the

2007
01:21:09,680 --> 01:21:07,320
local citizens had taken a ride in it

2008
01:21:12,140 --> 01:21:09,690
and no I'm sorry

2009
01:21:14,300 --> 01:21:12,150
that was a hoax but but in the paper

2010
01:21:15,919 --> 01:21:14,310
there was one had credited crashed in

2011
01:21:17,240 --> 01:21:15,929
Waterloo Iowa and there was a story in

2012
01:21:19,729 --> 01:21:17,250
the newspaper about the crash in the

2013
01:21:21,500 --> 01:21:19,739
Waterloo Iowa area and it was really an

2014
01:21:24,620 --> 01:21:21,510
interesting story and I thought great I

2015
01:21:26,180 --> 01:21:24,630
copied that and I came home and then I

2016
01:21:27,709 --> 01:21:26,190
thought you know maybe I should look to

2017
01:21:29,180 --> 01:21:27,719
the next day's paper and I went back to

2018
01:21:30,770 --> 01:21:29,190
the next day's paper and it said yeah

2019
01:21:32,260 --> 01:21:30,780
they'd have found out it was a hoax that

2020
01:21:35,240 --> 01:21:32,270
had been built by a couple of guys and

2021
01:21:38,720 --> 01:21:35,250
Waterloo and they had they had fun on

2022
01:21:40,910 --> 01:21:38,730
that and when I'd done a number of books

2023
01:21:43,580 --> 01:21:40,920
you know I would mention that story and

2024
01:21:44,840 --> 01:21:43,590
I have a picture that had been drawing

2025
01:21:48,339 --> 01:21:44,850
an illustration from the Cedar Rapids

2026
01:21:50,330 --> 01:21:48,349
Gazette in it and I when I did the

2027
01:21:51,319 --> 01:21:50,340
government UFO FILES he always

2028
01:21:54,560 --> 01:21:51,329
recounting the stone

2029
01:21:56,000 --> 01:21:54,570
worried about this crash and lo and

2030
01:21:57,979 --> 01:21:56,010
behold the editor found an actual

2031
01:22:00,979 --> 01:21:57,989
photograph of the thing I couldn't

2032
01:22:04,069 --> 01:22:00,989
believe it I'm I'm living in Iowa this

2033
01:22:06,739 --> 01:22:04,079
guy's in New York and he finds a picture

2034
01:22:11,449 --> 01:22:06,749
of this picture a photograph of the

2035
01:22:12,889 --> 01:22:11,459
Waterloo hoax if you will but I mean the

2036
01:22:14,149 --> 01:22:12,899
point simply is you know I went back the

2037
01:22:16,579 --> 01:22:14,159
next day and got the rest of the story

2038
01:22:18,290 --> 01:22:16,589
and sometimes you have to ask the next

2039
01:22:20,299 --> 01:22:18,300
question and the next question to get to

2040
01:22:24,319 --> 01:22:20,309
where you want to go that is a really

2041
01:22:28,219 --> 01:22:24,329
good point on how things can get you

2042
01:22:30,770 --> 01:22:28,229
know how things can grow without if you

2043
01:22:32,629 --> 01:22:30,780
didn't well it's also Charles go ahead

2044
01:22:34,669 --> 01:22:32,639
but it's also point it's also a point on

2045
01:22:36,979 --> 01:22:34,679
how you get the information you want you

2046
01:22:39,379 --> 01:22:36,989
quit right you know it's sometimes

2047
01:22:42,109 --> 01:22:39,389
sometimes you know I got this wonderful

2048
01:22:44,060 --> 01:22:42,119
story of the of the airship crash in

2049
01:22:46,879 --> 01:22:44,070
Waterloo Iowa and I'm really hot happy

2050
01:22:49,069 --> 01:22:46,889
about it but the next day it's all

2051
01:22:50,659 --> 01:22:49,079
explained and that's the real thing you

2052
01:22:52,639 --> 01:22:50,669
have to ask the next question you have

2053
01:22:54,770 --> 01:22:52,649
to follow all the leads to make sure you

2054
01:22:56,389 --> 01:22:54,780
you get to where you want to go right

2055
01:22:58,369 --> 01:22:56,399
and I do want to since we're on the

2056
01:23:01,579 --> 01:22:58,379
subject of hoaxes I do want to talk

2057
01:23:03,469 --> 01:23:01,589
about the Aztek suppose a crash but

2058
01:23:06,829 --> 01:23:03,479
before that there was a question up on

2059
01:23:08,959 --> 01:23:06,839
the message board Carrie I think it was

2060
01:23:11,509 --> 01:23:08,969
one to know what you thought about baud

2061
01:23:14,060 --> 01:23:11,519
Bigelow's recent statement that you you

2062
01:23:16,849 --> 01:23:14,070
know UFOs are here and ETS are here in

2063
01:23:20,270 --> 01:23:16,859
his uh in the recently released sixty

2064
01:23:25,339 --> 01:23:20,280
minutes interview with him we have any

2065
01:23:28,520 --> 01:23:25,349
number of people who are wealthy who are

2066
01:23:30,290 --> 01:23:28,530
oddly educated who are well-connected

2067
01:23:33,049 --> 01:23:30,300
who are in the government who have said

2068
01:23:35,060 --> 01:23:33,059
things like that repeatedly we can we

2069
01:23:38,119 --> 01:23:35,070
can we can point to astronauts we can

2070
01:23:43,879 --> 01:23:38,129
point to former presidents we can point

2071
01:23:45,290 --> 01:23:43,889
to all Kyl MacArthur said that he

2072
01:23:48,889 --> 01:23:45,300
thought the next big war would be

2073
01:23:51,889 --> 01:23:48,899
between earth and an alien invader so if

2074
01:23:54,020 --> 01:23:51,899
we we have all of that unfortunately

2075
01:23:57,500 --> 01:23:54,030
that does not constitute constitute

2076
01:24:00,619 --> 01:23:57,510
proof you know and I got hung up in a

2077
01:24:02,239 --> 01:24:00,629
debate with Steve Bassett about this I

2078
01:24:04,109 --> 01:24:02,249
said you know what's the best UFO case

2079
01:24:05,370 --> 01:24:04,119
he went off on a tangent with me

2080
01:24:08,280 --> 01:24:05,380
and what I should have said when he got

2081
01:24:09,750 --> 01:24:08,290
done with this tangent is is yeah you're

2082
01:24:11,580 --> 01:24:09,760
telling me that you know I've got to do

2083
01:24:14,339 --> 01:24:11,590
this research to you know disprove all

2084
01:24:15,750 --> 01:24:14,349
of this stuff and I'm thinking no what

2085
01:24:18,270 --> 01:24:15,760
really has to happen is you have got to

2086
01:24:20,459 --> 01:24:18,280
prove to me that we have alien

2087
01:24:23,189 --> 01:24:20,469
visitation just making the statement

2088
01:24:24,750 --> 01:24:23,199
isn't sufficient you have got to have

2089
01:24:26,729 --> 01:24:24,760
the proof to back it up and proof that

2090
01:24:28,950 --> 01:24:26,739
we can all look at and come to a

2091
01:24:31,500 --> 01:24:28,960
consensus about and that's how science

2092
01:24:34,410 --> 01:24:31,510
works you know it's I say I've created

2093
01:24:36,870 --> 01:24:34,420
cold fusion and all the scientists says

2094
01:24:39,390 --> 01:24:36,880
now you haven't and I say this is the

2095
01:24:41,430 --> 01:24:39,400
way I did it and they all go out to

2096
01:24:43,649 --> 01:24:41,440
their laboratories and says man that did

2097
01:24:46,770 --> 01:24:43,659
not work and so you realize that the

2098
01:24:50,250 --> 01:24:46,780
first evidence of the cold fusion is a

2099
01:24:52,740 --> 01:24:50,260
hoax if I say I've invented cold fusion

2100
01:24:54,570 --> 01:24:52,750
and you say no you haven't and I say

2101
01:24:56,070 --> 01:24:54,580
this is how I did it and you guys go to

2102
01:24:58,830 --> 01:24:56,080
the laboratory and you do the same thing

2103
01:25:00,330 --> 01:24:58,840
then we have a consensus yes cold fusion

2104
01:25:02,520 --> 01:25:00,340
works and this is how it does how it

2105
01:25:04,350 --> 01:25:02,530
does and they and then that's the

2106
01:25:06,750 --> 01:25:04,360
problem we have with UFOs we have people

2107
01:25:08,220 --> 01:25:06,760
making these statements I have no doubt

2108
01:25:11,729 --> 01:25:08,230
the Bob biblical elope with a Bob

2109
01:25:14,490 --> 01:25:11,739
Bigelow you believe that I've met Bob

2110
01:25:18,689 --> 01:25:14,500
Bigelow I've been to his office he and I

2111
01:25:21,209 --> 01:25:18,699
went out there a 51 back 20 years ago we

2112
01:25:24,990 --> 01:25:21,219
we had KFC and stopped at a picnic area

2113
01:25:26,280 --> 01:25:25,000
in a KFC as we went out there we didn't

2114
01:25:29,490 --> 01:25:26,290
see anything exciting but we went out

2115
01:25:33,479 --> 01:25:29,500
and took a look around um so the fact

2116
01:25:34,890 --> 01:25:33,489
that he truly believes that is great but

2117
01:25:39,000 --> 01:25:34,900
he didn't offer any evidence that it was

2118
01:25:40,830 --> 01:25:39,010
true yeah yeah I I think I personally

2119
01:25:43,169 --> 01:25:40,840
think it was good that he actually said

2120
01:25:45,330 --> 01:25:43,179
it because you know if someone of his

2121
01:25:47,010 --> 01:25:45,340
stature will say something like that you

2122
01:25:49,500 --> 01:25:47,020
know perhaps more people will look into

2123
01:25:51,359 --> 01:25:49,510
it I mean instead of it just being such

2124
01:25:53,939 --> 01:25:51,369
a fringe topic and I'm really glad that

2125
01:25:55,530 --> 01:25:53,949
he doesn't care he doesn't care what

2126
01:25:57,479 --> 01:25:55,540
people think about it and he you know

2127
01:25:59,990 --> 01:25:57,489
and I love the fact that he has that

2128
01:26:02,520 --> 01:26:00,000
little alien on the side of his building

2129
01:26:03,000 --> 01:26:02,530
I interviewed I interviewed James Van

2130
01:26:05,250 --> 01:26:03,010
Allen

2131
01:26:06,810 --> 01:26:05,260
you know the radiation belt guy oh yes I

2132
01:26:08,939 --> 01:26:06,820
had a chest I had a chance to sit down

2133
01:26:10,229 --> 01:26:08,949
with him and chat with well he was at

2134
01:26:11,520 --> 01:26:10,239
the University of Iowa he's the head of

2135
01:26:14,010 --> 01:26:11,530
the Department of physics and astronomy

2136
01:26:15,780 --> 01:26:14,020
in my friend Bob Cornett I had mentioned

2137
01:26:18,660 --> 01:26:15,790
earlier said that we should

2138
01:26:20,100 --> 01:26:18,670
review him yeah cuz I know I mean I'm

2139
01:26:22,230 --> 01:26:20,110
thinking yeah Bob you know Van Alen

2140
01:26:24,240 --> 01:26:22,240
uh-huh right so we're on an elevator in

2141
01:26:27,150 --> 01:26:24,250
the physics building and Van Halen gets

2142
01:26:29,840 --> 01:26:27,160
on the elevator and that Anna looks at

2143
01:26:33,480 --> 01:26:29,850
Bob says hi Bob was he wearing a belt

2144
01:26:35,490 --> 01:26:33,490
yes and that is in fact the only belt

2145
01:26:36,900 --> 01:26:35,500
that the only Van Allen belts he will

2146
01:26:39,030 --> 01:26:36,910
talk about in the university of iowa

2147
01:26:42,690 --> 01:26:39,040
there the radiation belts the Van Allen

2148
01:26:44,430 --> 01:26:42,700
belt holds up his pants but he gets he

2149
01:26:47,040 --> 01:26:44,440
gets on the elevator he says hi Bob

2150
01:26:48,180 --> 01:26:47,050
and Bob's his hi van how you doing so it

2151
01:26:49,860 --> 01:26:48,190
turned out he really didn't know Van

2152
01:26:51,000 --> 01:26:49,870
Alen and and we sat down with the

2153
01:26:54,120 --> 01:26:51,010
interview and we talked about you

2154
01:26:56,130 --> 01:26:54,130
specifically about UFOs and he was very

2155
01:26:57,900 --> 01:26:56,140
open and I said do you have any problems

2156
01:26:59,340 --> 01:26:57,910
with talking about this he says no I

2157
01:27:01,020 --> 01:26:59,350
mean it's Van Alen for God's sakes

2158
01:27:03,720 --> 01:27:01,030
nobody's gonna really say bad things

2159
01:27:05,700 --> 01:27:03,730
about him and the one thing he said that

2160
01:27:07,350 --> 01:27:05,710
really kind of cracked me up only it was

2161
01:27:08,550 --> 01:27:07,360
decades later was he said you know if

2162
01:27:10,080 --> 01:27:08,560
you're in the middle of Wyoming and you

2163
01:27:13,020 --> 01:27:10,090
hear the thunder of hoofbeats you don't

2164
01:27:16,230 --> 01:27:13,030
expect zebra meaning that you've got to

2165
01:27:19,470 --> 01:27:16,240
look at the most likely answers before

2166
01:27:21,390 --> 01:27:19,480
you get into the exotic and then then

2167
01:27:23,670 --> 01:27:21,400
what it was a year year and a half ago I

2168
01:27:26,040 --> 01:27:23,680
heard the story about this is zebra who

2169
01:27:27,900 --> 01:27:26,050
escaped him in Wyoming was running

2170
01:27:30,960 --> 01:27:27,910
around loose in Wyoming and I'm thinking

2171
01:27:32,430 --> 01:27:30,970
oh oh my god I think you're hearing the

2172
01:27:35,700 --> 01:27:32,440
Thunder of hoofbeats in Wyoming and it

2173
01:27:38,970 --> 01:27:35,710
is a zebra but the point the point

2174
01:27:40,890 --> 01:27:38,980
simply is you know Van Alen didn't

2175
01:27:42,750 --> 01:27:40,900
didn't worry about his reputation being

2176
01:27:44,190 --> 01:27:42,760
sullied by talking about UFOs Bigelow

2177
01:27:46,140 --> 01:27:44,200
doesn't have to worry about his on the

2178
01:27:50,250 --> 01:27:46,150
other hand there's too many in the news

2179
01:27:52,110 --> 01:27:50,260
media and I I fear that most of them

2180
01:27:53,670 --> 01:27:52,120
whose media is fake news now giving

2181
01:27:57,660 --> 01:27:53,680
everything I've been saying lately about

2182
01:28:01,850 --> 01:27:57,670
everything they don't want to they don't

2183
01:28:04,170 --> 01:28:01,860
want to ruin their reputations by

2184
01:28:07,230 --> 01:28:04,180
seriously the investigating UFOs or

2185
01:28:09,720 --> 01:28:07,240
looking at a UFO story seriously

2186
01:28:11,550 --> 01:28:09,730
Don and I had an interview at the

2187
01:28:15,180 --> 01:28:11,560
Chicago Tribune when when our first book

2188
01:28:16,890 --> 01:28:15,190
came out and so we get to the Tribune

2189
01:28:21,870 --> 01:28:16,900
for that and this girl meets us in the

2190
01:28:23,040 --> 01:28:21,880
hallway and she was an intern and we

2191
01:28:24,990 --> 01:28:23,050
said what are we gonna go inside she

2192
01:28:26,250 --> 01:28:25,000
said I'll talk you out here so they

2193
01:28:28,750 --> 01:28:26,260
wouldn't even let us into the city room

2194
01:28:31,300 --> 01:28:28,760
to sit down at a desk she

2195
01:28:33,340 --> 01:28:31,310
view us the intern interviewed us about

2196
01:28:35,470 --> 01:28:33,350
UFOs because clearly there's no such

2197
01:28:37,510 --> 01:28:35,480
thing as alien visitation and everybody

2198
01:28:41,410 --> 01:28:37,520
who is very sophisticated knows that and

2199
01:28:44,740 --> 01:28:41,420
we're not going to demean ourselves by

2200
01:28:45,940 --> 01:28:44,750
talking to you guys were because you

2201
01:28:48,040 --> 01:28:45,950
might actually have some proof to prove

2202
01:28:49,960 --> 01:28:48,050
that we were wrong but I mean we've run

2203
01:28:53,890 --> 01:28:49,970
into that an awful lot of tie at times

2204
01:28:56,500 --> 01:28:53,900
you don't get the top reporters talking

2205
01:28:57,850 --> 01:28:56,510
about UFOs any kind of serious vein when

2206
01:29:00,270 --> 01:28:57,860
there's a story that comes out it's

2207
01:29:02,950 --> 01:29:00,280
always treated tongue-in-cheek

2208
01:29:05,170 --> 01:29:02,960
and the one that really cracked me up

2209
01:29:07,150 --> 01:29:05,180
was when those guys in New Jersey were

2210
01:29:09,220 --> 01:29:07,160
launching the hot air balloon of the

2211
01:29:11,110 --> 01:29:09,230
weather balloons with flares on them to

2212
01:29:13,510 --> 01:29:11,120
prove how credulous UFO investigators

2213
01:29:14,620 --> 01:29:13,520
were and Whittle or witnesses were and

2214
01:29:16,590 --> 01:29:14,630
it turned out the witnesses were

2215
01:29:19,150 --> 01:29:16,600
describing exactly what they'd seen and

2216
01:29:20,860 --> 01:29:19,160
the investigators were saying well yeah

2217
01:29:22,120 --> 01:29:20,870
it sounds like a either a Chinese

2218
01:29:25,360 --> 01:29:22,130
lantern or a weather balloon with a

2219
01:29:26,530 --> 01:29:25,370
flare on it good and the news reporters

2220
01:29:27,910 --> 01:29:26,540
are down there talking to this little

2221
01:29:31,000 --> 01:29:27,920
girl with a lollipop says what do you

2222
01:29:33,040 --> 01:29:31,010
think about aliens no it sounded worried

2223
01:29:34,660 --> 01:29:33,050
about aliens until the reporter

2224
01:29:36,790 --> 01:29:34,670
introduced it talking to some little kid

2225
01:29:39,010 --> 01:29:36,800
and I'm thinking there you go that shows

2226
01:29:40,330 --> 01:29:39,020
you the level of sophistication in the

2227
01:29:43,300 --> 01:29:40,340
newsroom we'll go out and we'll do the

2228
01:29:45,100 --> 01:29:43,310
story on the flying saucers the UFOs and

2229
01:29:46,450 --> 01:29:45,110
we'll talk to some little kid and asking

2230
01:29:49,960 --> 01:29:46,460
what they think about the aliens even

2231
01:29:53,590 --> 01:29:49,970
though nobody had really drawn the

2232
01:29:56,320 --> 01:29:53,600
conclusion about the the lights being

2233
01:29:58,120 --> 01:29:56,330
alien spacecraft until the reporters had

2234
01:30:00,070 --> 01:29:58,130
done it and the guys who were conducting

2235
01:30:03,040 --> 01:30:00,080
the experiment introduced that into the

2236
01:30:06,070 --> 01:30:03,050
conversation as well which that point

2237
01:30:07,540 --> 01:30:06,080
sort of negated any results they got

2238
01:30:10,660 --> 01:30:07,550
because they were interfering with the

2239
01:30:12,460 --> 01:30:10,670
with the experiment so yeah but I mean

2240
01:30:15,000 --> 01:30:12,470
it just kind of proves the whole whole

2241
01:30:17,170 --> 01:30:15,010
media aspect of it right and next week

2242
01:30:19,690 --> 01:30:17,180
on Wednesday

2243
01:30:21,970 --> 01:30:19,700
I'll have Philip mantel I'm going to be

2244
01:30:24,310 --> 01:30:21,980
doing some shows with some European

2245
01:30:26,530 --> 01:30:24,320
guests because of the time slot oh man

2246
01:30:29,050 --> 01:30:26,540
and he'll be on and we're going to be

2247
01:30:31,510 --> 01:30:29,060
talking about the British tabloids who

2248
01:30:33,940 --> 01:30:31,520
have really exploited the UFO topic I'm

2249
01:30:36,220 --> 01:30:33,950
sure you've noticed Kevin over the last

2250
01:30:40,090 --> 01:30:36,230
few years that's going to be one of our

2251
01:30:41,620 --> 01:30:40,100
big topics just I just want to read you

2252
01:30:44,020 --> 01:30:41,630
some kind words someone wrote

2253
01:30:47,020 --> 01:30:44,030
here in the chat room he's meaning you

2254
01:30:48,910 --> 01:30:47,030
the only researcher most of us trust to

2255
01:30:49,450 --> 01:30:48,920
be thorough and objective thank you very

2256
01:30:52,900 --> 01:30:49,460
much

2257
01:30:55,570 --> 01:30:52,910
to mr. Willis and mr. Randall so I just

2258
01:30:56,140 --> 01:30:55,580
thought it well thank you whoever you

2259
01:30:59,350 --> 01:30:56,150
are

2260
01:31:03,730 --> 01:30:59,360
yeah because it it's usually you're a

2261
01:31:06,190 --> 01:31:03,740
debunker yes you lying to bunker I'm

2262
01:31:07,990 --> 01:31:06,200
sure you do get that someone like my

2263
01:31:10,360 --> 01:31:08,000
favorite my favorite my favorite was

2264
01:31:12,610 --> 01:31:10,370
somebody accuses me of being have having

2265
01:31:16,840 --> 01:31:12,620
worked with Hector quintanilla on

2266
01:31:18,700 --> 01:31:16,850
Project Blue Book you know when I don't

2267
01:31:21,550 --> 01:31:18,710
think so pal but you know there you go

2268
01:31:24,100 --> 01:31:21,560
yeah here's another question Kevin what

2269
01:31:27,670 --> 01:31:24,110
do you think's out what do you think of

2270
01:31:29,050 --> 01:31:27,680
major-general McCaslin telling

2271
01:31:31,480 --> 01:31:29,060
Tom DeLonge that the Air Force

2272
01:31:33,250 --> 01:31:31,490
discovered a life-form in the early

2273
01:31:35,050 --> 01:31:33,260
years of the Cold War and that there

2274
01:31:37,870 --> 01:31:35,060
have been multiple crash retrievals some

2275
01:31:40,810 --> 01:31:37,880
outside of the u.s. I'm not familiar

2276
01:31:43,510 --> 01:31:40,820
with that exactly but I've heard I've

2277
01:31:45,610 --> 01:31:43,520
heard up Makia I dream I've heard that

2278
01:31:48,730 --> 01:31:45,620
I've heard the same thing and I I just

2279
01:31:50,590 --> 01:31:48,740
can't buy it because once again if

2280
01:31:54,580 --> 01:31:50,600
you've got multiple crashes every time

2281
01:31:57,190 --> 01:31:54,590
one crashes yeah in 1947 the thing that

2282
01:31:59,260 --> 01:31:57,200
if it fell at Roswell that was like an

2283
01:32:01,630 --> 01:31:59,270
ideal place for it to crash because the

2284
01:32:03,490 --> 01:32:01,640
military could control the media and it

2285
01:32:05,860 --> 01:32:03,500
was very hard to get to the location it

2286
01:32:06,430 --> 01:32:05,870
was literally hours away from anything

2287
01:32:10,030 --> 01:32:06,440
anywhere

2288
01:32:13,300 --> 01:32:10,040
if one crash didn't say downtown oh I'll

2289
01:32:16,300 --> 01:32:13,310
say Denver just for laughs down there

2290
01:32:18,100 --> 01:32:16,310
and maybe in Larimore square crash down

2291
01:32:21,280 --> 01:32:18,110
there there's no way to hide it there's

2292
01:32:24,880 --> 01:32:21,290
no way to cover it up if one crashes in

2293
01:32:28,090 --> 01:32:24,890
the woods in northern Canada way up in

2294
01:32:31,060 --> 01:32:28,100
the Yukon area then the government might

2295
01:32:33,310 --> 01:32:31,070
be able to cover it cover it up but if

2296
01:32:34,720 --> 01:32:33,320
you've got an awful lot of crashes going

2297
01:32:36,970 --> 01:32:34,730
on and a lot of people involved in it

2298
01:32:38,890 --> 01:32:36,980
that information is going to be out in a

2299
01:32:42,040 --> 01:32:38,900
much more robust form than we have it

2300
01:32:45,310 --> 01:32:42,050
today so I think there's probably not

2301
01:32:49,420 --> 01:32:45,320
multiple crashes um I do not know why a

2302
01:32:52,060 --> 01:32:49,430
Major General wouldn't consult with it

2303
01:32:54,910 --> 01:32:52,070
what is that guy from what blink-182

2304
01:32:55,600 --> 01:32:54,920
right yeah I almost said Red Hot Chili

2305
01:32:59,859 --> 01:32:55,610
Peppers sorry

2306
01:33:02,680 --> 01:32:59,869
181 I don't know sorry

2307
01:33:05,379 --> 01:33:02,690
or maybe 582 hi I'm sorry no I think you

2308
01:33:07,540 --> 01:33:05,389
got a Rob yeah but but I'm not sure why

2309
01:33:10,359 --> 01:33:07,550
a major-general would confide in

2310
01:33:11,680 --> 01:33:10,369
somebody like that which is not to say

2311
01:33:14,320 --> 01:33:11,690
there's anything wrong with him I mean

2312
01:33:16,600 --> 01:33:14,330
it's just you know a major-general and

2313
01:33:19,510 --> 01:33:16,610
blink 182 just to kind of like oil and

2314
01:33:23,919 --> 01:33:19,520
water they really don't mix type thing

2315
01:33:25,510 --> 01:33:23,929
so I don't understand that and and so

2316
01:33:27,490 --> 01:33:25,520
I'm you know I'm very I'm very leery

2317
01:33:29,379 --> 01:33:27,500
about that and we've got an awful lot of

2318
01:33:31,450 --> 01:33:29,389
these stories where high-ranking

2319
01:33:34,530 --> 01:33:31,460
officials supposedly can fight it in

2320
01:33:38,200 --> 01:33:34,540
someone else but we are unable to

2321
01:33:40,000 --> 01:33:38,210
confirm the the information through the

2322
01:33:42,970 --> 01:33:40,010
original source we've got it from a

2323
01:33:46,540 --> 01:33:42,980
secondhand source yes so let's talk

2324
01:33:48,700 --> 01:33:46,550
about Aztec because you know a number of

2325
01:33:50,800 --> 01:33:48,710
who's the couple that wrote the book

2326
01:33:53,260 --> 01:33:50,810
there was a husband wife got stopped and

2327
01:33:55,600 --> 01:33:53,270
Suzanne Ramsey yes they were going to be

2328
01:33:59,350 --> 01:33:55,610
on my show at one point and then I think

2329
01:34:00,760 --> 01:33:59,360
I read a blog on your website and I

2330
01:34:03,820 --> 01:34:00,770
cancelled the show

2331
01:34:06,490 --> 01:34:03,830
I'm not joking that was uh that was back

2332
01:34:08,590 --> 01:34:06,500
years ago I think at least three well

2333
01:34:12,310 --> 01:34:08,600
ago I can do better than that

2334
01:34:15,550 --> 01:34:12,320
ah I invited Scott Ramsay on my on my

2335
01:34:17,229 --> 01:34:15,560
show and he said no he wasn't going to

2336
01:34:18,430 --> 01:34:17,239
do it why should he support my show and

2337
01:34:20,290 --> 01:34:18,440
I'm thinking I don't need you to support

2338
01:34:23,740 --> 01:34:20,300
my show my show is doing really fine

2339
01:34:25,149 --> 01:34:23,750
without you so you know don't take the

2340
01:34:26,950 --> 01:34:25,159
opportunity to promote your book on my

2341
01:34:28,629 --> 01:34:26,960
show I don't care and he said why don't

2342
01:34:30,100 --> 01:34:28,639
you get Monte Schreiber on it I said

2343
01:34:31,959 --> 01:34:30,110
okay so I did

2344
01:34:34,270 --> 01:34:31,969
Bonnie Schreiber of course is the exact

2345
01:34:36,820 --> 01:34:34,280
opposite he said nothing there and that

2346
01:34:38,169 --> 01:34:36,830
the the crash is a hoax oh I had Monty

2347
01:34:40,689 --> 01:34:38,179
Schreiber explaining why he believed it

2348
01:34:43,419 --> 01:34:40,699
to be a hoax and Scott Ramsey was unable

2349
01:34:45,580 --> 01:34:43,429
to offer real the rebuttal because he

2350
01:34:48,160 --> 01:34:45,590
didn't want to appear on the program can

2351
01:34:52,510 --> 01:34:48,170
you tell a quick nutshell of what had

2352
01:34:55,780 --> 01:34:52,520
supposed to have happened and then I

2353
01:35:00,689 --> 01:34:55,790
want you to kind of go over why you

2354
01:35:06,100 --> 01:35:04,390
yeah I'm stumbling around here figuring

2355
01:35:09,669 --> 01:35:06,110
out how to start well the story is that

2356
01:35:12,610 --> 01:35:09,679
on March 25th 1948 something fell

2357
01:35:14,950 --> 01:35:12,620
outside of Aztec New Mexico at the heart

2358
01:35:16,840 --> 01:35:14,960
canning a number of civilians were there

2359
01:35:20,380 --> 01:35:16,850
and sought the government showed up the

2360
01:35:22,150 --> 01:35:20,390
military showed up they surrounded the

2361
01:35:23,620 --> 01:35:22,160
craft they couldn't find any scenes

2362
01:35:25,600 --> 01:35:23,630
couldn't find anything about it but

2363
01:35:27,520 --> 01:35:25,610
there was a porthole with a hole in it

2364
01:35:30,280 --> 01:35:27,530
and they poked a rod through it and by

2365
01:35:31,959 --> 01:35:30,290
poking the pole around in there they hit

2366
01:35:35,050 --> 01:35:31,969
a switch and opened the whole thing up

2367
01:35:38,919 --> 01:35:35,060
then they found original think they

2368
01:35:41,860 --> 01:35:38,929
found 16 little bodies about 38 to 42

2369
01:35:43,689 --> 01:35:41,870
inches tall dressed in 1890 garb I don't

2370
01:35:45,820 --> 01:35:43,699
know why they'd be dressed in 1890 garb

2371
01:35:47,680 --> 01:35:45,830
and that they were from Venus well of

2372
01:35:50,470 --> 01:35:47,690
course we know Venus is probably not the

2373
01:35:52,060 --> 01:35:50,480
likely point of origin today but the

2374
01:35:53,320 --> 01:35:52,070
original story was they were dressed in

2375
01:35:56,080 --> 01:35:53,330
the safety night and they had perfect

2376
01:35:57,669 --> 01:35:56,090
teeth by the way perfect teeth the story

2377
01:36:00,550 --> 01:35:57,679
came out in a book called behind the

2378
01:36:03,640 --> 01:36:00,560
flying sausage by Frank Scully he got

2379
01:36:05,020 --> 01:36:03,650
the story from two men oh the Traveling

2380
01:36:08,320 --> 01:36:05,030
Salesman or something

2381
01:36:11,110 --> 01:36:08,330
no no Silas Newton and Leo G Bauer

2382
01:36:12,970 --> 01:36:11,120
suta Newton turns out to be really kind

2383
01:36:15,939 --> 01:36:12,980
of an interesting guy he was a period a

2384
01:36:19,840 --> 01:36:15,949
top-ranked amateur golfer he'd studied

2385
01:36:22,419 --> 01:36:19,850
it Yale it apparently made a couple of

2386
01:36:23,530 --> 01:36:22,429
fortunes but he was also a con man and I

2387
01:36:25,030 --> 01:36:23,540
think if there were two ways of doing

2388
01:36:26,350 --> 01:36:25,040
something the right way and the wrong

2389
01:36:29,350 --> 01:36:26,360
way he picked the wrong way because it

2390
01:36:32,979 --> 01:36:29,360
would be more fun but he fed this story

2391
01:36:34,990 --> 01:36:32,989
to silent or to Frank Scully the idea

2392
01:36:36,459 --> 01:36:35,000
was that he and Joe Bauer had created

2393
01:36:38,650 --> 01:36:36,469
some kind of device what they called a

2394
01:36:42,070 --> 01:36:38,660
Doodlebug and this was supposed to be

2395
01:36:46,990 --> 01:36:42,080
able to find oil deposits far beneath

2396
01:36:49,090 --> 01:36:47,000
the surface of the of the earth and they

2397
01:36:50,140 --> 01:36:49,100
were trying to get investors to invest

2398
01:36:54,310 --> 01:36:50,150
in their Doodlebug

2399
01:36:56,290 --> 01:36:54,320
and they eventually got sued or arrested

2400
01:36:58,060 --> 01:36:56,300
for fraud and I guess we're convicted of

2401
01:37:02,890 --> 01:36:58,070
fraud which I think kind of undercuts

2402
01:37:05,050 --> 01:37:02,900
the validity of the story so a fellow

2403
01:37:07,600 --> 01:37:05,060
named JP Kane for the San Francisco

2404
01:37:09,010 --> 01:37:07,610
Chronicle although some there's some

2405
01:37:10,600 --> 01:37:09,020
question whether he worked for The

2406
01:37:12,070 --> 01:37:10,610
Chronicle there was more of a stringer

2407
01:37:12,620 --> 01:37:12,080
for The Chronicle but he did a story for

2408
01:37:14,270 --> 01:37:12,630
the

2409
01:37:17,600 --> 01:37:14,280
francisco chronicle' that appeared in

2410
01:37:19,520 --> 01:37:17,610
true magazine in I think 1952 about this

2411
01:37:21,110 --> 01:37:19,530
and about his whole investigation and

2412
01:37:23,720 --> 01:37:21,120
what he had learned about this about

2413
01:37:25,580 --> 01:37:23,730
this thing and the conclusion was it was

2414
01:37:28,520 --> 01:37:25,590
a hoax I think pretty much the UFO

2415
01:37:30,110 --> 01:37:28,530
community sided with Kane on this thing

2416
01:37:35,479 --> 01:37:30,120
and you couldn't really talk to anybody

2417
01:37:37,010 --> 01:37:35,489
about UFO crashes because of this hoax

2418
01:37:41,149 --> 01:37:37,020
when Springfield turned all of that

2419
01:37:43,370 --> 01:37:41,159
around with with his research but so

2420
01:37:44,629 --> 01:37:43,380
everybody kind of ignored the Aztec case

2421
01:37:46,310 --> 01:37:44,639
because it wasn't there wasn't any

2422
01:37:48,860 --> 01:37:46,320
documentation where no newspaper

2423
01:37:51,590 --> 01:37:48,870
articles all you had was this this tale

2424
01:37:54,229 --> 01:37:51,600
told by behind the flying saucers as as

2425
01:37:57,320 --> 01:37:54,239
the FBI began to release some of their

2426
01:37:59,300 --> 01:37:57,330
documents later on you could find hints

2427
01:38:00,800 --> 01:37:59,310
about the story but it always traceable

2428
01:38:02,479 --> 01:38:00,810
back to the book behind the flying

2429
01:38:04,669 --> 01:38:02,489
saucer so it wasn't that they were

2430
01:38:07,669 --> 01:38:04,679
getting other sources and documenting

2431
01:38:09,680 --> 01:38:07,679
the case from other places they were

2432
01:38:10,970 --> 01:38:09,690
actually talking about the book by the

2433
01:38:15,919 --> 01:38:10,980
flying saucers and what the information

2434
01:38:19,939 --> 01:38:15,929
was in there and then you had William

2435
01:38:23,270 --> 01:38:19,949
Stein Steinman I do the book UFO crash

2436
01:38:28,060 --> 01:38:23,280
at Aztec in the mid-1980s his co-author

2437
01:38:30,439 --> 01:38:28,070
was um wendell stevens

2438
01:38:31,760 --> 01:38:30,449
wendell stevens has a very unsavory

2439
01:38:34,570 --> 01:38:31,770
background he was apparently he spent

2440
01:38:36,830 --> 01:38:34,580
six years in jail for child molestation

2441
01:38:38,810 --> 01:38:36,840
so I'm not sure that anything Wendell

2442
01:38:42,110 --> 01:38:38,820
Stevens tells me I want to hear and

2443
01:38:44,149 --> 01:38:42,120
regardless of the topic but he did a

2444
01:38:46,250 --> 01:38:44,159
book which was much thicker but it was

2445
01:38:50,750 --> 01:38:46,260
loaded with all this nonsense about

2446
01:38:53,600 --> 01:38:50,760
mj-12 and he's out talking to the this

2447
01:38:56,450 --> 01:38:53,610
one rancher in the area Harold Dunning

2448
01:38:58,840 --> 01:38:56,460
and Dunning kind of blows him off and

2449
01:39:00,860 --> 01:38:58,850
doesn't want anything to do with him and

2450
01:39:02,959 --> 01:39:00,870
Steinman interprets this to mean he's

2451
01:39:04,189 --> 01:39:02,969
got something to hide I'm thinking

2452
01:39:06,169 --> 01:39:04,199
Dunning just really tired of people

2453
01:39:10,550 --> 01:39:06,179
showing up in his house asking about

2454
01:39:12,590 --> 01:39:10,560
this fake UFO crash and things like that

2455
01:39:14,540 --> 01:39:12,600
but he brings in some of the beings in

2456
01:39:18,050 --> 01:39:14,550
the International on the International

2457
01:39:20,030 --> 01:39:18,060
the interplanetary phenomena unit IPU

2458
01:39:23,930 --> 01:39:20,040
which by the way shows up in the latest

2459
01:39:25,759 --> 01:39:23,940
document but the IPU which did exist but

2460
01:39:28,100 --> 01:39:25,769
it was

2461
01:39:30,830 --> 01:39:28,110
the internal processing unit I think it

2462
01:39:33,560 --> 01:39:30,840
had to do with the old IBM computers in

2463
01:39:35,330 --> 01:39:33,570
the 9th late 1950s early 1960s you know

2464
01:39:38,419 --> 01:39:35,340
both things the card sort of thing yep

2465
01:39:40,069 --> 01:39:38,429
punch card thing that's sort of that's

2466
01:39:42,290 --> 01:39:40,079
what it had to do had to do with that

2467
01:39:44,419 --> 01:39:42,300
they bring that into that and and

2468
01:39:46,160 --> 01:39:44,429
Steinman in his book brings in the IPU

2469
01:39:47,959 --> 01:39:46,170
and all of this other ancillary stuff

2470
01:39:51,049 --> 01:39:47,969
that has nothing to do with it he's got

2471
01:39:54,739 --> 01:39:51,059
pictures of a an aviator who was killed

2472
01:39:57,020 --> 01:39:54,749
in an aircraft accident in I think 1948

2473
01:39:58,250 --> 01:39:57,030
is called the tomato man picture and

2474
01:40:00,620 --> 01:39:58,260
they said oh here's a picture of the

2475
01:40:03,620 --> 01:40:00,630
dead alien and you look at it you find

2476
01:40:08,029 --> 01:40:03,630
these really earth-based aviator glasses

2477
01:40:09,799 --> 01:40:08,039
near the body the head is expanded but

2478
01:40:11,720 --> 01:40:09,809
what you find out and you know now we

2479
01:40:15,290 --> 01:40:11,730
get into disgusting detail what you find

2480
01:40:17,720 --> 01:40:15,300
out is to human bodies when exposed to

2481
01:40:20,060 --> 01:40:17,730
great heat the head tends to expand you

2482
01:40:22,609 --> 01:40:20,070
know it and if you put fire out fast

2483
01:40:25,239 --> 01:40:22,619
enough it doesn't explode because if you

2484
01:40:28,669 --> 01:40:25,249
don't and then you have a headless body

2485
01:40:30,339 --> 01:40:28,679
so he permit be published pictures like

2486
01:40:33,200 --> 01:40:30,349
that in there and all this other

2487
01:40:35,600 --> 01:40:33,210
nonsensical stuff and I don't think many

2488
01:40:37,879 --> 01:40:35,610
people thought much of the story but

2489
01:40:40,939 --> 01:40:37,889
then you get the Ramsey Scott Ramsey and

2490
01:40:44,089 --> 01:40:40,949
I guess his wife Suzanne Ramsey is from

2491
01:40:45,919 --> 01:40:44,099
the area as was Monte Shriver by the way

2492
01:40:48,049 --> 01:40:45,929
muddy Shriver who's a guy on my show

2493
01:40:50,450 --> 01:40:48,059
that debunked the whole thing he he was

2494
01:40:53,180 --> 01:40:50,460
going to high school in 1948 in Aztec

2495
01:40:54,500 --> 01:40:53,190
New Mexico so he was right there but

2496
01:40:55,879 --> 01:40:54,510
they go back into there and they're

2497
01:40:57,470 --> 01:40:55,889
spending an awful lot of time and money

2498
01:40:59,330 --> 01:40:57,480
down there talking to people and they've

2499
01:41:01,069 --> 01:40:59,340
got a couple of alleged firsthand

2500
01:41:04,669 --> 01:41:01,079
witnesses and things like that in their

2501
01:41:07,759 --> 01:41:04,679
book but they really don't provide the

2502
01:41:11,209 --> 01:41:07,769
evidence that we would need to to go

2503
01:41:12,950 --> 01:41:11,219
beyond that the shriver when he did my

2504
01:41:15,620 --> 01:41:12,960
program and I and I've discussed this on

2505
01:41:16,870 --> 01:41:15,630
my blog which is WWE Evan Randall blog

2506
01:41:21,770 --> 01:41:16,880
spot.com

2507
01:41:23,149 --> 01:41:21,780
talked about this Nolan story doesn't

2508
01:41:24,739 --> 01:41:23,159
hang together because he said he was

2509
01:41:27,770 --> 01:41:24,749
working for the OU pass on natural gas

2510
01:41:29,000 --> 01:41:27,780
company for example in 1948 but Knapp a

2511
01:41:32,209 --> 01:41:29,010
so natural gas didn't get there until

2512
01:41:34,700 --> 01:41:32,219
like 49 or 50 well there's a picture of

2513
01:41:37,900 --> 01:41:34,710
drip tanks near where this UFO

2514
01:41:40,850 --> 01:41:37,910
supposedly crashed the big tanks

2515
01:41:42,950 --> 01:41:40,860
and the in the book is kind of confusing

2516
01:41:45,170 --> 01:41:42,960
whether or not the the picture well the

2517
01:41:46,550 --> 01:41:45,180
picture is not from 1948 but it kind of

2518
01:41:49,430 --> 01:41:46,560
suggests it is but the drip tanks

2519
01:41:51,890 --> 01:41:49,440
weren't there in 1948 so you've got all

2520
01:41:55,640 --> 01:41:51,900
these kinds of problems with the story

2521
01:41:59,530 --> 01:41:55,650
and given that I just don't buy it I

2522
01:42:03,170 --> 01:41:59,540
know Frank Warren who I find as a very

2523
01:42:05,240 --> 01:42:03,180
fine young man I should say young a fine

2524
01:42:09,470 --> 01:42:05,250
man and he does the UFO Chronicles

2525
01:42:12,560 --> 01:42:09,480
website oh yeah um he he he buys into

2526
01:42:14,210 --> 01:42:12,570
Aztec he believes it to be true I think

2527
01:42:16,340 --> 01:42:14,220
if you take a look at the whole story

2528
01:42:20,570 --> 01:42:16,350
from the first column that's Scully

2529
01:42:22,160 --> 01:42:20,580
wrote Frank Scully wrote in variety I

2530
01:42:23,750 --> 01:42:22,170
think was weekly variety of the time no

2531
01:42:25,790 --> 01:42:23,760
I don't want to switch all daily but he

2532
01:42:28,610 --> 01:42:25,800
had a column about three flying saucer

2533
01:42:30,770 --> 01:42:28,620
crashes and and the column comes out in

2534
01:42:32,450 --> 01:42:30,780
1948 but none of them is an Aztec and

2535
01:42:34,700 --> 01:42:32,460
he's kind of making fun of the whole

2536
01:42:36,800 --> 01:42:34,710
thing and then in 1950 comes out with

2537
01:42:40,010 --> 01:42:36,810
the book about which is which features

2538
01:42:42,230 --> 01:42:40,020
the Aztec crash but there's just there's

2539
01:42:43,670 --> 01:42:42,240
just really not any good solid evidence

2540
01:42:45,110 --> 01:42:43,680
for that and a number of the people have

2541
01:42:47,150 --> 01:42:45,120
come forward to suggest that they were

2542
01:42:48,890 --> 01:42:47,160
participants in it or heard the story

2543
01:42:50,930 --> 01:42:48,900
from people who are participants in it

2544
01:42:54,020 --> 01:42:50,940
just don't hang together and the one I

2545
01:42:57,470 --> 01:42:54,030
think of there was a guy named that Sam

2546
01:42:59,150 --> 01:42:57,480
the donald bass i think it was and they

2547
01:43:01,970 --> 01:42:59,160
called him Sam because Sam Bass was the

2548
01:43:04,640 --> 01:43:01,980
great you know outlaw from the 19th

2549
01:43:07,220 --> 01:43:04,650
century but he was supposedly killed in

2550
01:43:11,300 --> 01:43:07,230
a traffic accident in Vietnam and that

2551
01:43:15,290 --> 01:43:11,310
was why you couldn't interview him well

2552
01:43:16,790 --> 01:43:15,300
I went to the the the wall the Vietnam

2553
01:43:18,230 --> 01:43:16,800
Memorial Wall we have a list of

2554
01:43:21,380 --> 01:43:18,240
everybody who was killed in Vietnam on

2555
01:43:23,450 --> 01:43:21,390
wall and his name isn't there there's

2556
01:43:25,130 --> 01:43:23,460
and I looked at you know I mean if it

2557
01:43:27,530 --> 01:43:25,140
was killed in a traffic illed in a

2558
01:43:29,660 --> 01:43:27,540
traffic accident everybody who died in

2559
01:43:31,970 --> 01:43:29,670
Vietnam name is on the wall if you died

2560
01:43:36,380 --> 01:43:31,980
of a heart attack okay if you committed

2561
01:43:40,640 --> 01:43:36,390
suicide if you were struck by lightning

2562
01:43:42,380 --> 01:43:40,650
yeah okay uh you know I think there's

2563
01:43:45,950 --> 01:43:42,390
58,000 people who died in Vietnam

2564
01:43:49,220 --> 01:43:45,960
American who died in Vietnam of those I

2565
01:43:51,239 --> 01:43:49,230
think 48,000 47,000 were killed killed

2566
01:43:53,489 --> 01:43:51,249
in combat the other 10,000

2567
01:43:57,929 --> 01:43:53,499
died of other causes while serving in

2568
01:43:59,819 --> 01:43:57,939
Vietnam okay so uh but his name's not on

2569
01:44:01,020 --> 01:43:59,829
there well they say well you know you go

2570
01:44:02,429 --> 01:44:01,030
to their website say well we think we

2571
01:44:04,649 --> 01:44:02,439
have everybody but we might have missed

2572
01:44:06,569 --> 01:44:04,659
a few people I'm thinking how come it is

2573
01:44:10,199 --> 01:44:06,579
every time I want to look somebody up on

2574
01:44:12,540 --> 01:44:10,209
this wall or look somebody up military

2575
01:44:15,000 --> 01:44:12,550
records it does not I cannot find the

2576
01:44:18,029 --> 01:44:15,010
reference hmm and and then the flip side

2577
01:44:21,419 --> 01:44:18,039
of that is when Don and I had done a

2578
01:44:23,699 --> 01:44:21,429
book done done the second Roswell book

2579
01:44:31,770 --> 01:44:23,709
we had we just put a footnote about a

2580
01:44:34,439 --> 01:44:31,780
guy named Frank Duran no Frank I forget

2581
01:44:38,100 --> 01:44:34,449
his name what Duran his name was Duran

2582
01:44:39,419 --> 01:44:38,110
and Carlock challenges on this and said

2583
01:44:41,040 --> 01:44:39,429
well we can't find in reference and I

2584
01:44:42,689 --> 01:44:41,050
went back to number sources I couldn't

2585
01:44:46,199 --> 01:44:42,699
find any reference I finally found his

2586
01:44:49,560 --> 01:44:46,209
name it was a lieutenant colonel and I

2587
01:44:53,159 --> 01:44:49,570
actually found him in you know in a

2588
01:44:55,949 --> 01:44:53,169
reference book of retired officers and

2589
01:44:57,479 --> 01:44:55,959
so I mean I was able to verify the guy

2590
01:44:59,489 --> 01:44:57,489
had been in the military

2591
01:45:03,989 --> 01:44:59,499
unlike so many others that we cannot

2592
01:45:06,779 --> 01:45:03,999
verify we're in the military so uh you

2593
01:45:08,819 --> 01:45:06,789
know III we've got Dolan who claimed

2594
01:45:11,580 --> 01:45:08,829
Noland I'm sorry Nolan who claimed he

2595
01:45:14,520 --> 01:45:11,590
was working on the El Paso natural gas

2596
01:45:17,069 --> 01:45:14,530
pipeline and his two pals who were with

2597
01:45:19,290 --> 01:45:17,079
him they were both dead before the

2598
01:45:22,890 --> 01:45:19,300
Ramseys can interview him they talked

2599
01:45:25,979 --> 01:45:22,900
about a police officer who was had seen

2600
01:45:27,659 --> 01:45:25,989
something but I think they got the

2601
01:45:30,659 --> 01:45:27,669
information from like a fourth cousins

2602
01:45:33,509 --> 01:45:30,669
twice removed or something which is not

2603
01:45:35,850 --> 01:45:33,519
really reliable information but I mean a

2604
01:45:38,069 --> 01:45:35,860
lot of stuff like that and to their

2605
01:45:39,390 --> 01:45:38,079
credit in the book the the first one at

2606
01:45:42,810 --> 01:45:39,400
least they were talking about this

2607
01:45:45,319 --> 01:45:42,820
preacher who was supposedly consulted

2608
01:45:48,419 --> 01:45:45,329
about the alien bodies or something and

2609
01:45:50,969 --> 01:45:48,429
when that when the Ramseys went to talk

2610
01:45:52,439 --> 01:45:50,979
to him he said never happened and then

2611
01:45:54,089 --> 01:45:52,449
maybe publishing well the guy said it

2612
01:45:55,830 --> 01:45:54,099
never happened we think it did but he

2613
01:46:00,270 --> 01:45:55,840
claimed it never happened but I mean

2614
01:46:01,649 --> 01:46:00,280
there's just really nothing solid to put

2615
01:46:04,259 --> 01:46:01,659
your put your finger on they they say

2616
01:46:05,080 --> 01:46:04,269
well and it says in this document this

2617
01:46:07,899 --> 01:46:05,090
late

2618
01:46:09,459 --> 01:46:07,909
mj-12 document that the thing the UFO

2619
01:46:10,930 --> 01:46:09,469
was being tracked by three radars and

2620
01:46:12,250 --> 01:46:10,940
that caused it to crash I'm thinking my

2621
01:46:14,649 --> 01:46:12,260
god you've traveled interstellar

2622
01:46:16,149 --> 01:46:14,659
distance that a radar beam brings you

2623
01:46:18,609 --> 01:46:16,159
down I don't think so

2624
01:46:20,109 --> 01:46:18,619
but in this document it says the radars

2625
01:46:22,540 --> 01:46:20,119
were all located in southwestern New

2626
01:46:25,030 --> 01:46:22,550
Mexico and I'm thinking yeah well if

2627
01:46:27,220 --> 01:46:25,040
it's in southwestern New Mexico given

2628
01:46:31,300 --> 01:46:27,230
the terrain that there's mountains

2629
01:46:33,970 --> 01:46:31,310
between the where the radars were and

2630
01:46:36,189 --> 01:46:33,980
Aztec where it crashed you you're not

2631
01:46:38,680 --> 01:46:36,199
going to see this thing at very low

2632
01:46:40,300 --> 01:46:38,690
altitude and so there's another reason

2633
01:46:43,000 --> 01:46:40,310
you know you don't think this document

2634
01:46:46,140 --> 01:46:43,010
is false but the idea that the thing was

2635
01:46:48,550 --> 01:46:46,150
brought down by radar just preposterous

2636
01:46:50,830 --> 01:46:48,560
well there's just so many things wrong

2637
01:46:52,390 --> 01:46:50,840
with story yeah I know that that does

2638
01:46:54,160 --> 01:46:52,400
come up I've heard the radar thing a

2639
01:46:57,399 --> 01:46:54,170
number of times and you know the only

2640
01:46:58,780 --> 01:46:57,409
thing that I could possibly think how

2641
01:47:01,839 --> 01:46:58,790
that could happen it would be something

2642
01:47:05,550 --> 01:47:01,849
that they could not expect um you know

2643
01:47:09,129 --> 01:47:05,560
to encounter and the way their you know

2644
01:47:10,720 --> 01:47:09,139
ability to move is somehow affected by

2645
01:47:15,640 --> 01:47:10,730
that I mean that's the only thing that

2646
01:47:17,879 --> 01:47:15,650
could power a do beam space own space is

2647
01:47:20,950 --> 01:47:17,889
filled with radio beams

2648
01:47:22,510 --> 01:47:20,960
okay so we'll we'll cancel that part but

2649
01:47:24,729 --> 01:47:22,520
the ones are the one thing I thought of

2650
01:47:27,070 --> 01:47:24,739
ours are throwing about I thought about

2651
01:47:31,839 --> 01:47:27,080
the also about the crashes is you know

2652
01:47:32,680 --> 01:47:31,849
the earth is 70% water so you know are

2653
01:47:35,290 --> 01:47:32,690
these things

2654
01:47:36,970 --> 01:47:35,300
supposedly actually are they crashing

2655
01:47:39,129 --> 01:47:36,980
here and if they are actually crashing

2656
01:47:41,200 --> 01:47:39,139
here wouldn't a lot of them crash in the

2657
01:47:43,510 --> 01:47:41,210
water you know I mean that's I would

2658
01:47:45,970 --> 01:47:43,520
argue I would argue that the difference

2659
01:47:48,939 --> 01:47:45,980
is the the interesting stuff is on the

2660
01:47:50,740 --> 01:47:48,949
dry land yeah so I'm an alien visit

2661
01:47:52,060 --> 01:47:50,750
visitor I want to look at the

2662
01:47:54,040 --> 01:47:52,070
civilization I'm gonna look what's going

2663
01:47:55,720 --> 01:47:54,050
on on dry land I'm not I'm not screwing

2664
01:47:58,390 --> 01:47:55,730
around over the Pacific Ocean

2665
01:48:00,760 --> 01:47:58,400
hello watching great great parts of

2666
01:48:02,229 --> 01:48:00,770
water and of course we have the shag

2667
01:48:04,689 --> 01:48:02,239
harbour crash where did actually fall

2668
01:48:06,839 --> 01:48:04,699
into the water so right right oh yeah

2669
01:48:10,629 --> 01:48:06,849
but I would think that if I'm an alien

2670
01:48:13,479 --> 01:48:10,639
visitor I'm not looking at the force of

2671
01:48:16,989 --> 01:48:13,489
Brazil I'm not looking at the

2672
01:48:18,989 --> 01:48:16,999
Sahara Desert you know I'm looking at

2673
01:48:21,819 --> 01:48:18,999
the areas that would be of interest to

2674
01:48:24,219 --> 01:48:21,829
to me as of alien visitor which would be

2675
01:48:26,290 --> 01:48:24,229
the civilizations you know and not just

2676
01:48:29,169 --> 01:48:26,300
in the United States of course in Europe

2677
01:48:31,029 --> 01:48:29,179
in Africa in Asia

2678
01:48:32,350 --> 01:48:31,039
I might not hang around much in

2679
01:48:35,169 --> 01:48:32,360
Antarctica because it's pretty cold

2680
01:48:38,169 --> 01:48:35,179
there and when we look at Australia just

2681
01:48:39,489 --> 01:48:38,179
so they wouldn't we feel left out but I

2682
01:48:40,719 --> 01:48:39,499
mean I'm that's what I would be looking

2683
01:48:42,729 --> 01:48:40,729
at I'd be looking at the areas of

2684
01:48:45,549 --> 01:48:42,739
interest and if I was an alien visitor

2685
01:48:47,439 --> 01:48:45,559
especially in 1947 the place I'm going

2686
01:48:49,209 --> 01:48:47,449
to be looking is in New Mexico because

2687
01:48:51,640 --> 01:48:49,219
we're firing rockets into the sky that

2688
01:48:53,709 --> 01:48:51,650
there we're testing atomic weapons there

2689
01:48:56,739 --> 01:48:53,719
we're doing all kinds of that sort of

2690
01:49:00,100 --> 01:48:56,749
thing and if I'm an alien visitor and I

2691
01:49:02,620 --> 01:49:00,110
know how warlike the humans are the

2692
01:49:04,779 --> 01:49:02,630
Terrans are I'm going to want to make

2693
01:49:06,879 --> 01:49:04,789
sure they can't pose no threat to me

2694
01:49:08,529 --> 01:49:06,889
with their rockets in their atomic

2695
01:49:11,020 --> 01:49:08,539
weapons and I get to New Mexico a

2696
01:49:13,120 --> 01:49:11,030
discovery out they managed to get one up

2697
01:49:15,250 --> 01:49:13,130
35 miles in the atmosphere yeah that's

2698
01:49:17,379 --> 01:49:15,260
going to bother us so you know I it

2699
01:49:21,489 --> 01:49:17,389
turns out we're not much of a threat to

2700
01:49:24,399 --> 01:49:21,499
anybody outside of the planet Earth I

2701
01:49:26,229 --> 01:49:24,409
mean whoo our one space probe which

2702
01:49:30,129 --> 01:49:26,239
finally may have gotten outside the

2703
01:49:32,739 --> 01:49:30,139
limits of the solar system will contact

2704
01:49:35,229 --> 01:49:32,749
the first next star system in 87

2705
01:49:38,140 --> 01:49:35,239
thousand years that's not much of a

2706
01:49:40,239 --> 01:49:38,150
threat I know so I you have to look at

2707
01:49:42,790 --> 01:49:40,249
it that way these guys are no threat

2708
01:49:45,310 --> 01:49:42,800
let's go home I had an astrophysicist on

2709
01:49:49,810 --> 01:49:45,320
that was explaining that our trip to the

2710
01:49:52,149 --> 01:49:49,820
moon was so minuscule you know in in

2711
01:49:55,060 --> 01:49:52,159
proportion to anything else it's like

2712
01:49:55,870 --> 01:49:55,070
you know 1/8 of an inch or something

2713
01:49:59,350 --> 01:49:55,880
like that

2714
01:50:03,580 --> 01:49:59,360
compared to you know the net the next

2715
01:50:05,830 --> 01:50:03,590
planet and all that so and I think this

2716
01:50:10,449 --> 01:50:05,840
is we only have about five or six

2717
01:50:13,359 --> 01:50:10,459
minutes left here and I wanted to tell

2718
01:50:15,699 --> 01:50:13,369
you what what do you think I want to ask

2719
01:50:18,129 --> 01:50:15,709
you what what do you think about a

2720
01:50:20,919 --> 01:50:18,139
situation like this where a book is

2721
01:50:22,149 --> 01:50:20,929
written then another story's told and

2722
01:50:25,950 --> 01:50:22,159
another book is written and all of a

2723
01:50:27,900 --> 01:50:25,960
sudden you know fake becomes fact

2724
01:50:31,710 --> 01:50:27,910
in a lot of people's eyes you know

2725
01:50:34,320 --> 01:50:31,720
someone it keeps going there there's no

2726
01:50:38,040 --> 01:50:34,330
way to stop something like this once the

2727
01:50:39,630 --> 01:50:38,050
ball is rolling is there probably not

2728
01:50:43,110 --> 01:50:39,640
but I do something called chasing

2729
01:50:45,170 --> 01:50:43,120
footnotes and so I look at be reading a

2730
01:50:47,610 --> 01:50:45,180
book and there's a footnote and I will

2731
01:50:49,650 --> 01:50:47,620
check to see where the sources of the

2732
01:50:52,770 --> 01:50:49,660
information was and then check those

2733
01:50:55,320 --> 01:50:52,780
sources and check those sources one of

2734
01:50:57,870 --> 01:50:55,330
the best examples of that is there is

2735
01:50:59,580 --> 01:50:57,880
the story I was looking for any story of

2736
01:51:02,160 --> 01:50:59,590
disc-shaped craft that preceded Arnold

2737
01:51:04,080 --> 01:51:02,170
mentioned in the newspapers or whatever

2738
01:51:05,640 --> 01:51:04,090
and Frank Edwards had said that there

2739
01:51:07,650 --> 01:51:05,650
was a story from an engineer in Cedar

2740
01:51:09,150 --> 01:51:07,660
Rapids Iowa who had seen nine

2741
01:51:11,850 --> 01:51:09,160
disc-shaped objects flying across the

2742
01:51:14,400 --> 01:51:11,860
atmosphere on June 23rd the day before

2743
01:51:16,200 --> 01:51:14,410
Arnold sighting and I thought this is

2744
01:51:18,390 --> 01:51:16,210
great this is exactly what I want

2745
01:51:21,410 --> 01:51:18,400
and so I I tried to chase the footnote

2746
01:51:22,680 --> 01:51:21,420
down and I found the the reference in

2747
01:51:25,890 --> 01:51:22,690
dickholes

2748
01:51:28,830 --> 01:51:25,900
UFO evidence and gave me some more

2749
01:51:32,040 --> 01:51:28,840
evident references about that I finally

2750
01:51:34,530 --> 01:51:32,050
chased a thing down I found the story in

2751
01:51:37,260 --> 01:51:34,540
the Cedar Rapids Gazette but it turns

2752
01:51:39,450 --> 01:51:37,270
out it was printed on the Friday after

2753
01:51:41,310 --> 01:51:39,460
the Arnold sighting the engineer didn't

2754
01:51:43,830 --> 01:51:41,320
live in Cedar Rapids he lived in Peoria

2755
01:51:45,600 --> 01:51:43,840
Illinois and he said nothing about the

2756
01:51:47,790 --> 01:51:45,610
sighting until after the Arnold sighting

2757
01:51:49,680 --> 01:51:47,800
it appeared so this sighting that had

2758
01:51:52,740 --> 01:51:49,690
been sourced in a number of different

2759
01:51:57,060 --> 01:51:52,750
books as citing the predated Arnold

2760
01:51:59,130 --> 01:51:57,070
showing this shaped craft from Cedar

2761
01:52:00,960 --> 01:51:59,140
Rapids Iowa turned out to be he wasn't

2762
01:52:03,000 --> 01:52:00,970
an engineer either he worked for the

2763
01:52:06,090 --> 01:52:03,010
railroad but he wasn't an engineer and

2764
01:52:08,100 --> 01:52:06,100
he would you know he didn't live in

2765
01:52:09,510 --> 01:52:08,110
Cedar Rapids and he didn't tell the

2766
01:52:13,020 --> 01:52:09,520
story until after the Arnold story

2767
01:52:15,120 --> 01:52:13,030
appeared in the newspapers so it doesn't

2768
01:52:16,830 --> 01:52:15,130
make the story untrue it just makes the

2769
01:52:19,110 --> 01:52:16,840
importance of the story much less

2770
01:52:21,930 --> 01:52:19,120
because it happened after Arnold right

2771
01:52:26,180 --> 01:52:21,940
well you know it's kind of its kind of

2772
01:52:29,310 --> 01:52:26,190
like along the lines of you know when

2773
01:52:32,190 --> 01:52:29,320
the Alexander the Great UFO sighting

2774
01:52:36,000 --> 01:52:32,200
supposedly well that originates from a

2775
01:52:38,010 --> 01:52:36,010
1950's novel you know but that's almost

2776
01:52:38,979 --> 01:52:38,020
becomes fact a lot of people when you

2777
01:52:41,379 --> 01:52:38,989
say oh yeah

2778
01:52:42,970 --> 01:52:41,389
Alexander the Great you know had UFO

2779
01:52:45,220 --> 01:52:42,980
sighting their shields in the sky and

2780
01:52:47,950 --> 01:52:45,230
all that you know there's so many people

2781
01:52:50,649 --> 01:52:47,960
that believe that and there's no there's

2782
01:52:53,739 --> 01:52:50,659
no control and I think as time goes on I

2783
01:52:56,279 --> 01:52:53,749
think that you know it's going to be

2784
01:52:58,930 --> 01:52:56,289
harder and harder to you know weed out

2785
01:53:02,739 --> 01:52:58,940
you know the the real students the

2786
01:53:04,299 --> 01:53:02,749
problem go ahead the problem is problem

2787
01:53:06,549 --> 01:53:04,309
is you go to the internet and you're

2788
01:53:07,450 --> 01:53:06,559
looking for something specific you find

2789
01:53:10,810 --> 01:53:07,460
what you're looking for

2790
01:53:13,000 --> 01:53:10,820
and you're happy you don't say what's

2791
01:53:15,729 --> 01:53:13,010
the source of this information yeah can

2792
01:53:18,100 --> 01:53:15,739
i trace it back to its origin and on

2793
01:53:20,669 --> 01:53:18,110
what i found any number of times when

2794
01:53:24,399 --> 01:53:20,679
i've tried to chase the footnotes back

2795
01:53:26,770 --> 01:53:24,409
from source to source the source it

2796
01:53:27,279 --> 01:53:26,780
turns out that it's something completely

2797
01:53:31,739 --> 01:53:27,289
different

2798
01:53:35,049 --> 01:53:31,749
and another example in dolan in his book

2799
01:53:36,580 --> 01:53:35,059
one of his books is talking about the

2800
01:53:39,489 --> 01:53:36,590
information that Mac Brazel and Alex are

2801
01:53:41,649 --> 01:53:39,499
Bill Brazel had had said in quotes from

2802
01:53:43,799 --> 01:53:41,659
Bill Brazel and his he gives the source

2803
01:53:46,689 --> 01:53:43,809
and Stan Friedman's book crash at Corona

2804
01:53:48,160 --> 01:53:46,699
well the problem with that is the

2805
01:53:49,779 --> 01:53:48,170
information didn't originate there it

2806
01:53:52,330 --> 01:53:49,789
originated with Don Schmitt at me it was

2807
01:53:54,879 --> 01:53:52,340
in our first book and so Dolan Radford

2808
01:53:58,600 --> 01:53:54,889
is Friedman who doesn't give credit to

2809
01:54:01,810 --> 01:53:58,610
us and and so the the original source of

2810
01:54:03,640 --> 01:54:01,820
the information is sort of obscured you

2811
01:54:05,500 --> 01:54:03,650
know I still have the tapes I still have

2812
01:54:06,759 --> 01:54:05,510
the transcripts of that interview with

2813
01:54:08,890 --> 01:54:06,769
bill browser that original interview

2814
01:54:10,899 --> 01:54:08,900
with Bill Brownsville and that's the

2815
01:54:12,549 --> 01:54:10,909
other problem sometimes you don't get to

2816
01:54:15,040 --> 01:54:12,559
the original source through the

2817
01:54:16,540 --> 01:54:15,050
footnotes there's other cases where you

2818
01:54:18,520 --> 01:54:16,550
know I've traced it from book to book to

2819
01:54:20,080 --> 01:54:18,530
book to book and finally got to the

2820
01:54:21,339 --> 01:54:20,090
original source and found out the story

2821
01:54:24,430 --> 01:54:21,349
is somewhat different than what was

2822
01:54:25,629 --> 01:54:24,440
originally printed and a lot of people

2823
01:54:28,060 --> 01:54:25,639
don't do that because they think that

2824
01:54:30,850 --> 01:54:28,070
they think that the the writer of that

2825
01:54:33,220 --> 01:54:30,860
article or that book has done that work

2826
01:54:34,989 --> 01:54:33,230
you know try to trace the source down

2827
01:54:36,250 --> 01:54:34,999
and they don't think that maybe they

2828
01:54:37,419 --> 01:54:36,260
just picked it up from some other book

2829
01:54:39,729 --> 01:54:37,429
and they didn't bother to verify that

2830
01:54:42,009 --> 01:54:39,739
information that was how I got onto

2831
01:54:44,859 --> 01:54:42,019
Willingham by the way I was doing the

2832
01:54:47,259 --> 01:54:44,869
UFO when crash when UFOs fall from the

2833
01:54:49,330 --> 01:54:47,269
sky and I was doing the Del Rio UFO

2834
01:54:51,549 --> 01:54:49,340
crash and I thought is there anything

2835
01:54:52,750 --> 01:54:51,559
new on it so I typed a Willingham's name

2836
01:54:55,120 --> 01:54:52,760
into the Internet

2837
01:54:57,580 --> 01:54:55,130
and found out there was a whole

2838
01:54:59,050 --> 01:54:57,590
different story and began to pray seing

2839
01:55:00,700 --> 01:54:59,060
all that information that was how I got

2840
01:55:02,800 --> 01:55:00,710
under Willingham not being who he said

2841
01:55:04,960 --> 01:55:02,810
he was because you know I was trying to

2842
01:55:07,510 --> 01:55:04,970
trying to find the original source and

2843
01:55:09,400 --> 01:55:07,520
how these things are different from one

2844
01:55:11,200 --> 01:55:09,410
another do you think that a lot of

2845
01:55:14,920 --> 01:55:11,210
people will see a footnote and just say

2846
01:55:18,340 --> 01:55:14,930
oh good there's a footnote so it must be

2847
01:55:22,000 --> 01:55:18,350
it must be right or it's heart stops I

2848
01:55:23,530 --> 01:55:22,010
don't think people you know I try to now

2849
01:55:25,479 --> 01:55:23,540
heavily footnote everything and get it

2850
01:55:26,860 --> 01:55:25,489
back to the original source but I don't

2851
01:55:28,690 --> 01:55:26,870
think I think people might look at the

2852
01:55:31,390 --> 01:55:28,700
look at the footnotes or just ignore the

2853
01:55:35,080 --> 01:55:31,400
footnotes you know I try to put fun

2854
01:55:37,090 --> 01:55:35,090
stuff in the footnotes to more know that

2855
01:55:38,229 --> 01:55:37,100
you yeah yeah more little nuggets hidden

2856
01:55:39,310 --> 01:55:38,239
in the footnotes you know that's one

2857
01:55:40,630 --> 01:55:39,320
thing but I think people look at the

2858
01:55:42,460 --> 01:55:40,640
footnote and they don't say well you

2859
01:55:45,090 --> 01:55:42,470
know okay this guy did his research and

2860
01:55:47,500 --> 01:55:45,100
they don't go to the original source and

2861
01:55:50,080 --> 01:55:47,510
so yeah that was a problem I had like

2862
01:55:51,460 --> 01:55:50,090
with the one footnote in Dolan's book it

2863
01:55:52,720 --> 01:55:51,470
didn't get us back to the original

2864
01:55:56,320 --> 01:55:52,730
source there was another point where he

2865
01:55:58,630 --> 01:55:56,330
he referenced a UFO sighting that took

2866
01:56:02,110 --> 01:55:58,640
place at the time of the art b-47 case

2867
01:56:03,760 --> 01:56:02,120
in 1957 and he referenced goods book I

2868
01:56:06,010 --> 01:56:03,770
went to goods book and he referenced a

2869
01:56:09,180 --> 01:56:06,020
book by the Lorenz ins choral and Jim

2870
01:56:12,820 --> 01:56:09,190
Lorenzen and I went to their April

2871
01:56:14,350 --> 01:56:12,830
newsletter and found that information

2872
01:56:16,120 --> 01:56:14,360
but I also went to the night cap

2873
01:56:18,370 --> 01:56:16,130
investigator for the same timeframe and

2874
01:56:21,010 --> 01:56:18,380
discovered the information the what they

2875
01:56:24,070 --> 01:56:21,020
thought it was a UFO approaching an

2876
01:56:25,840 --> 01:56:24,080
aircraft turned out to be a near-miss by

2877
01:56:27,280 --> 01:56:25,850
two aircraft you know and one of it one

2878
01:56:29,620 --> 01:56:27,290
of the reports had an unidentified

2879
01:56:32,380 --> 01:56:29,630
aircraft and everybody just assumed it

2880
01:56:34,150 --> 01:56:32,390
unidentified flying object and and so we

2881
01:56:35,560 --> 01:56:34,160
get we get it back to the original

2882
01:56:42,100 --> 01:56:35,570
source and we discovered that it wasn't

2883
01:56:43,870 --> 01:56:42,110
a UFO case it was a two aircraft in a

2884
01:56:45,880 --> 01:56:43,880
near collision and one of them was

2885
01:56:47,620 --> 01:56:45,890
unidentified in the original story and

2886
01:56:49,060 --> 01:56:47,630
we originally got the identity of both

2887
01:56:50,680 --> 01:56:49,070
aircraft and we knew that it didn't take

2888
01:56:52,180 --> 01:56:50,690
place near Fort Worth as they claimed it

2889
01:56:55,479 --> 01:56:52,190
really took place near El Paso Texas

2890
01:56:58,840 --> 01:56:55,489
which is like 9 billion miles from Fort

2891
01:57:01,510 --> 01:56:58,850
Worth well Kevin hey it's it's been

2892
01:57:04,720 --> 01:57:01,520
great and I really really appreciate

2893
01:57:06,399 --> 01:57:04,730
always fun to talk to talk with you and

2894
01:57:09,729 --> 01:57:06,409
I appreciate your dad

2895
01:57:12,820 --> 01:57:09,739
and and we filled up the two hours we

2896
01:57:14,350 --> 01:57:12,830
did easily so again you mentioned your

2897
01:57:16,450 --> 01:57:14,360
blog site go ahead and throw that out

2898
01:57:18,459 --> 01:57:16,460
there again and tell us when your shows

2899
01:57:21,820 --> 01:57:18,469
on again because you have up you have

2900
01:57:23,290 --> 01:57:21,830
Jan Harsin on talking about MUFON and I

2901
01:57:27,100 --> 01:57:23,300
know you're going to be asking him some

2902
01:57:32,260 --> 01:57:27,110
tough questions so let's see we the blog

2903
01:57:33,520 --> 01:57:32,270
is WWF and Randall blog spot.com and if

2904
01:57:35,439 --> 01:57:33,530
you've got a specific question about a

2905
01:57:37,419 --> 01:57:35,449
specific case as a search engineer you

2906
01:57:39,640 --> 01:57:37,429
can type in a keyword and it'll bring up

2907
01:57:42,729 --> 01:57:39,650
the objects I've done on it if you're

2908
01:57:45,100 --> 01:57:42,739
really interested in the mj-12 documents

2909
01:57:47,590 --> 01:57:45,110
I did Roswell in the 21st century and

2910
01:57:51,729 --> 01:57:47,600
it's got a 50 page in debt now the index

2911
01:57:53,050 --> 01:57:51,739
appendix about mj-12 from the very

2912
01:57:56,050 --> 01:57:53,060
beginnings and how this whole thing

2913
01:57:59,080 --> 01:57:56,060
evolved the radio show is on the XO and

2914
01:58:01,990 --> 01:57:59,090
broadcast neck network it's XZ b and

2915
01:58:03,850 --> 01:58:02,000
dotnet you go on there you can click on

2916
01:58:05,290 --> 01:58:03,860
it you can you can find all the shows we

2917
01:58:06,280 --> 01:58:05,300
all appear on youtube so you just type

2918
01:58:09,640 --> 01:58:06,290
in a different perspective

2919
01:58:12,399 --> 01:58:09,650
Kevin Randall and type in Jan hare Zog

2920
01:58:14,410 --> 01:58:12,409
for exams on ours on John hogs on theme

2921
01:58:17,020 --> 01:58:14,420
and it'll bring up the shows I've done

2922
01:58:18,790 --> 01:58:17,030
with him or a whole list of other shows

2923
01:58:22,000 --> 01:58:18,800
like that you can you can get a list of

2924
01:58:26,250 --> 01:58:22,010
the shows on X own broadcast network and

2925
01:58:30,010 --> 01:58:26,260
it airs of Saturday nights at 9:00 p.m.

2926
01:58:31,270 --> 01:58:30,020
Eastern Daylight Time I believe so and

2927
01:58:33,760 --> 01:58:31,280
you can get a list of the stations it

2928
01:58:36,160 --> 01:58:33,770
appears on and other platforms it

2929
01:58:38,979 --> 01:58:36,170
appears on at the exo-m broadcast

2930
01:58:41,709 --> 01:58:38,989
network very good ok Kevin can you hang

2931
01:58:43,600 --> 01:58:41,719
in through the out door here I want to

2932
01:58:44,770 --> 01:58:43,610
talk to you quickly before we say good

2933
01:58:46,959 --> 01:58:44,780
night ok all right

2934
01:58:49,689 --> 01:58:46,969
so thanks so much I really appreciate it

2935
01:58:52,209 --> 01:58:49,699
all right everyone so thanks for

2936
01:58:53,530 --> 01:58:52,219
listening thanks for listening live and

2937
01:58:55,510 --> 01:58:53,540
being in the chatroom I appreciate all

2938
01:58:56,709 --> 01:58:55,520
your questions and everything and don't

2939
01:58:59,620 --> 01:58:56,719
forget we're going to be back next

2940
01:59:02,140 --> 01:58:59,630
Wednesday at 1 to 3 p.m.

2941
01:59:05,140 --> 01:59:02,150
that's CDT Eastern Standard Time and

2942
01:59:06,910 --> 01:59:05,150
that's going to be here on podcast UFO

2943
01:59:10,240 --> 01:59:06,920
or on YouTube you can watch them both

2944
01:59:11,500 --> 01:59:10,250
live then and Philip mantle will be on

2945
01:59:14,979 --> 01:59:11,510
we're going to be talking about tabloids

2946
01:59:17,770 --> 01:59:14,989
and so much more so that is it for the

2947
01:59:24,430 --> 01:59:17,780
show and thanks so much and remember to